5 psychological PROCESSES that keep us stuck in narcissistic relationships

as more time passes you are really confused the good day bad day cycle begins you justify you rationalize you want it to work you doubt yourself you become anxious you doubt reality you start feeling messy helpless and Powerless let's take on today's topic it's a question that somebody asked me which is how do we stop giving in to this damned cognitive dissonance cognitive dissonance is such a bear right so let's take let's let me play this out for you let's pretend this is your Journal right you're in a narcissistic relationship you had a great weekend fun beach dinner sex you were wrong screw you Dr Romney I'm unsubscribing from her her YouTube channel when I get home my person was just having a moment this isn't narcissism no it's Tuesday rage Gaslight blame shift contempt manipulate [Music] oh yeah okay I get it they had a tough meeting on Monday of course they're stressed after such a great weekend and ah the buzz kill of their boss who's such an ass I get it look we had a good dinner on Wednesday wow they're so bad at me because my sister dropped by on Thursday oh I hope we have another great weekend I will make sure we have a great weekend I will be perfect I'll set it all up they're just angry because they had a bad week I get it I would be saying these things too I would be the same way to would you would you be the same way just trying to say what you need to say to make the pieces fit and that is cognitive dissonance the fancy technical term for the Mind f word that is the narcissistic relationship as we Ricochet between love story and Horror Show anyone watching this channel almost all of you are experts on cognitive dissonance that idea that we're naturally driven to make things fit in our mind right we want this thing called congruence we justify and rationalize so that we're not confused and all of this justifying is driven by emotion something we call motivated reasoning we want a certain outcome we want to be in the fun relationship we want to be part of a family emotion drives our reasoning and that may override rationality or the data in front of us so we try to ignore those pieces we don't like or we make up a story that makes the pieces fit just like the fox and the sour grapes why do we do this because our brains don't like things that are inconsistent it's sort of uncomfortable like a little Stone in your shoe now I've talked about this on this channel and in my new healing program it has become so clear to me how much this impedes healing cognitive dissonance how much people struggle with the inconsistency created by these relationships and get stuck because they're trying to make everything fit so here's a thought how about you don't try to make it fit it certainly goes against what our brains like which is consistency but what about getting comfortable with dissonance so some examples I am married to someone and they lied to me and they treat me badly I just had a good weekend with someone who is emotionally inconsistent and manipulative my mother is cold and unavailable and cruel and I love her my son is manipulative and takes advantage of us and he's my little baby now imagine saying those things not easy to do instead of saying I'm married to someone and sometimes they aren't perfect because they watch their father lie and cheat but really who is perfect or we had a great weekend I know I know he's a handful right but he's only a handful right now because his boss is such a jerk or my mother always did her best and she always made many sacrifices for us or or we over indulged our son it's my fault because I worked all the time and I just didn't make enough time for him you see the difference in the second set of statements you blame you for another person's bad behavior you can see how that becomes a slippery slope for survivors of narcissistic abuse does seeing it clearly and pushing Beyond and being comfortable with the dissonance magically solve everything no but it means that you are now having to sort of see the ickiness of it Square you square up with it you don't get to live in denial or talk yourself into the relationship you have to see it clearly you are uncomfortable in fact so uncomfortable that some people find the false Narrative of the justification obviously much more comfortable but that means to have that false narrative means that you're constantly being bombarded with confusion and self-blame these aren't appealing choices right if you fall into the justifications that the cognitive dissonance pulls for you then you self-blame if you lay it out clearly you don't justify but you may feel like a masochist for staying in it which is another form of self-blame to see it that way or you see it for what it is and may be able to get to radical acceptance even if you stay in the relationship now I'm a bigger fan obviously because I want everyone to heal I'm a bigger fan of seeing it clearly and not justifying it I am stunned when I see how much justification happens out there I know some of it is driven by empathy you really do see that someone had a rough start in childhood and that was a driver in developing their personality or they've fallen on Hard Times but then you can play that out as a reality or as a truce rather than as a justification you can say yeah they came from a really bad family and their behavior is still unacceptable and you can see that their behavior is not okay so we could try it this way my mother is cold and invalidating she had a tough childhood I love her and her behavior is not okay we had a great weekend ah yeah he has a rageful dad who always yelled and it was all terrible and their behavior is mean and it's not okay you can build your justification in as a statement rather than than letting them get away with it and now you can practice that last phrase and this behavior is not okay that you can say it you can even justify it but you got to call it out is not okay someone manipulating gaslighting yelling raging threatening it's not okay building the story out this way can sometimes help you slowly get to a place of seeing it naming it not blaming yourself and not getting stuck in the endless cycle over time if you can do this you may get better at boundaries or simply at getting out or disengaging or at a minimum not blaming yourself cognitive dissonance is second nature I am basically asking you to do the equivalent of hold back a sneeze not easy to do but the only way we heal or grow is by being uncomfortable irritation is what grows a pearl being okay with discomfort being okay with discomfort may be what gets you your life back give it a shot not easy to do but give it a shot let me just open with this you know how you many of you many people stay in narcissistic relationships because you think damn it I've already put 15 years or five years or 10 years or however much time you put into this relationship I've put my youth into this relationship I've put the best of myself into this relationship I moved across the country for this relationship and as a result of that result of that no matter how toxic it is you stay but that doesn't really make sense does it you can't get the five or the 10 or the 15 years back by staying but yet you stay for that reason here's another example different kind of example you prepaid a non-refundable few hundred dollars for a hotel room for a weekend break ahead of that you are having the week from hell and then you get sick the weather shifts and what should have been a sunny weekend is now going to be rainy and not the best getaway the pressures at work at home have really started making you sick sicker and a weekend in bed at home would do wonders for you especially since you'll have another tough week the week after you really don't want to go away and drive three hours to sit in the rain the drive will be exhausting but you still go why same reason folks stay in narcissistic relationships even when they know they're toxic it's partly because of something called the sunk cost fallacy which may be at play here once we invest in something time money we often just go along with it even when it is no longer a good thing to do sunk costs are resources we cannot get back the hotel room for example was non-refundable but this can apply to anything where we can't get what we put in back so going on that ill-timed trip or doing something that is not a good use of our time will not get that time and money back however it is possible that it may result in us getting sicker not having a good time wasting more time or wasting even more money eating out and on various activities on a trip that is actually not good for us but you're doing so you don't lose the couple hundred dollars but let me repeat you cannot get the money back whether you go or not at the time you made the call to go on the trip it seemed like a good idea now it's not you not going doesn't get the money back right but the fact is we don't like losing stuff that's something called loss aversion it just feels awful so we may make further bad decisions to avoid that discomfort around losing money or time so we may do something even when it's not good for us to avoid that sense of loss so this idea of bad decision making because of things like sunk cost fallacies and loss aversion they're all they all derive from the world of Behavioral and economics now alas we are not computers we are people who have emotions and emotions really tinge our decision making we rationally know that skipping out on the Rainy time-consuming exhausting weekend is probably the best course of action but then we also have to sit with the discomfort of wasting the money there is a cognitive dissonance element here we're damned if we do we're damned if we don't and for many people getting what they paid for seems like it would smooth things out even though it ends up becoming a bad way to spend time and you're going to lose the money either way economic theory which is supposed to be more devoid of messy emotion would have it that we should be using future gains and losses to guide our decisions and not the money that we've already sunk in if we can do that we may make we may be less likely to make bad choices but the fact is it's not so easy to do turns out that negative emotions like anxiety also don't help and in one study by dijkstra and colleagues they found that those negative emotions were sort of associated with kind of getting stuck and not taking action and getting stuck in the sunk cost basically continuing to stay in the bad investment going on the Rainy weekend staying in the toxic relationship so what does this have to do with narcissistic relationships kind of everything so you're in a narcissistic relationships right let's let's use a romantic one as an example you met someone Charming fun attractive charismatic successful you have fun you really are growing to like them and them you and you want to finally really settle into a committed relationship they want to move in so you do you're hoping to get married it's been three years they aren't really moving in that direction you want a family too you're committed to each other but they're not interested in that and on top of that they're really dismissive manipulative gaslighty unkind critical and angry they keep putting off saying I will get who will get to it we're good now it's three years you can't get the three years back so you stay in and you keep staying in and they keep moving the goal posts yeah yeah we'll do that down the line I'm too busy right now I I need more stability I need to get promoted like why are you rushing me on and on another year goes by four years in I have four years I can't walk away start again four years can't get the four years back five years still don't have kids you want kids okay maybe maybe we won't get married it'll have kids that's not how you pictured it now I don't think they want to have kids six years the loss aversion and many narcissistic relationships is around time there are other researchers in the past like rust balt who called this the investment model of relationships but it's a bad investment just like that weekend away or a bad business investment or a project that is running into cost overruns and will never give return on investment but maybe 50 million dollars has already been sunk into it and so people just keep throwing more money into it emotion takes over I can't get those six years back I am going to effing make this work you stay and maybe with enough time you end up getting married or having those children now you're in a relationship a toxic relationship with someone and you got kids was it a great investment where the six years wasted or not it's challenging now most narcissistic relationships of choice for example Intimate Relationships friendships workplace relationships are driven by the sunk cost fallacy wanting to not walk away from all that time and resource which is why I am such a big fan of people getting out early when the red flags begin to show up there's fewer sunk costs at that moment it all relates to cognitive dissonance of course but also that loss aversion then you have the confusion of not knowing what this is uh Charming Charisma feels so good so you want this to work they are attractive so you want this to work you want a fun sidekick friend who's just so cool to spend time with you want this to work you always wanted to work for this great company so you want this to work the idea of walking away after the time and sometimes the money well that point that's what messes up the decision making behavioral economists would say that the future gains and losses they do need to guide us if we're going to do this decision making right now looking realistically at the long game not only is that really hard to do when emotion is involved and that right there is why this YouTube channel exists because when it comes to narcissistic relationships the long game is bad putting more and more resources into a narcissistic relationship is like betting on an investment on VCRs making a comeback not a good place to park your money and in a way there is so much less ambiguity in the narcissistic relationship because they're always going to be unhealthy even if the early period was fun the love bombing period of the relationship was also unhealthy so you got to make your investment decisions accordingly so even if you invested heavily in that VCR company it may have seemed like a good idea at the time in the 1980s it's not anymore you can't get the other money back spending more money doesn't really make sense the narcissistic relationship seemed like a good idea during the love bombing phase now that you are in devalue in discard not so much and you can't get the time back by throwing more time at it the future will always be more of the same in narcissistic relationships another interesting bit of guidance we get from behavioral economics is to break this all down this decision making into phases and I like this because it's a place for you to almost become more self-forgiving in your decision making in this kind of a relationship the sunk cost fallacy is us not accounting for the idea though we cannot get the money or time back so putting more money and time into it while it may feel comforting it doesn't make sense like I said even though it's uncomfortable to let that original investment go but when we break it into phases we can assess whether the investment makes sense at each phase so when we can apply when so when we apply this thinking to a narcissistic relationship it can look like this love bombing phase seems like a great idea putting the time in putting the investment in your loving the ride you get swept away it makes sense you would invest time into it then even though my hope for the world is that everyone will eventually see love bombing as bad as I know is a tough sell so even then during love bombing I'd still love see see people sort of hedge their Investments now you move into the red flags and devaluing phase of the relationship at this point you're still investing on the basis of the love bombing phase right but some of the blushes off the rows so this may be when you should start pulling back on the investment a little but sadly and this is where it gets interesting this is exactly when people start doubling the time and investment they make in a narcissistic relationship because a narcissistic person's starting to pull back in the discard in the future faking and manipulation phase at this point is really when the sunk cost fallacy really gets us because on the basis of what is happening in front of you this is a good time to think no thanks yes you did put in the time can't get the time back at this phase it is no longer a good investment this right here is the money shot no pun intended this is no longer a good play in terms of an investment as dykman's research suggests negative emotions make sunk costs worse we are often less likely to take action when we feel negative emotions such as anxiety and unfortunately that is a key part of the Fallout of narcissistic abuse when we are in the sadness and confusion and anxiety that come from narcissistic abuse we aren't good at thinking clearly and rationally about how to invest our time we just precisely when we will keep throwing the good money after bad as it were I think one place where behavioral economics research hasn't I think sufficiently shown a light is on the fear of regret maybe they just put that in with the negative emotions fear of regret is an emotion that really muddies the waters for survivors of narcissistic abuse it still relates to the sunk cost because not only is there the sense of wasting more time and resource you can't get back there's also the fear of regret in these narcissistic relationships that if you don't keep trying what if you're wrong what if you walk away from something that actually was good you're not you probably aren't wrong again doesn't mean you have to leave I'm never going to pressure anyone to leave but probably it's time to stop bringing your a game to the narcissistic relationship pulling back resource means giving the best of yourself to yourself or to worthy and reciprocal recipients and not to the narcissists it means saying Ugg I will swallow the 200 bucks on the lost hotel room and then recognizing how good you will feel after a few days of rest maybe the resolution of the sunk cost fallacy is radical acceptance you can't get it back that's that and you can still win though by not wasting more money time or resources the sunk cost fallacy is a simple sort of a model that cuts to the change cuts to the chase on many of the struggles of people who waste a lot of time in narcissistic relationships you can't get the time back but maybe you learned something and to me that is a return on investment so let's say I came into your house with a can of paint and I just spilled it and threw it at the walls and made a huge mess and then I upended the furniture I blocked up your sinks I smashed your windows and I sliced up your sofas and then I came back and I offered to clean it up most of you would think get the hell out of my house you're the one who messed it up I am calling the police and yet in narcissistic relationships this is a classical trauma bonded Dynamic the narcissistic person comes into your life makes a mess of it kinda offers to clean it up and people let them come back in and say sure come help me clean up the mess that you made of my life so how the hell does that work well let's start with first sometimes that's where the narcissistic relationship can actually start when we have talked about the different kinds of people who are often the more likely targets of narcissistic relationships that can include people who have had a history of trauma or significant loss or people who are going through a difficult or transitional time at those times we feel messy and unsettled and almost like we need someone to clean things up for us right it's exactly the kind of situation a person with a narcissistic personality may try to exploit they may sweep in and as part of Love bombing may offer help or support may give advice or guidance as they clean up our perceived messiness they may tell us oh you're so lovable despite whatever messes we are enduring this is the stuff that would often happen early in a relationship and while it is dangerous because it sets up a dynamic of them as the Savior and the other person in the relationship as in need of saving this other Dynamic I'm about to talk about is a much bigger problem psychologically speaking a narcissistic person is a one-person Wrecking Crew they slowly dismantle us and often Prey Upon people who have their own attachment issues so when the narcissistic person who is manipulative comes into contact with someone who has let's say an anxious attachment Style that becomes a recipe for a trauma-bonded catastrophe the cycle of Love bomb calm chaos break up get back together calm chaos break up get back together that's a classical trauma bonded cycle and a class is sort of classical sort of anxious attachment cycle but with each one of those Cycles you are being increasingly invalidated gaslighted manipulated and end up feeling more and more confused helpless self-blaming self-doubting anxious and upside down you basically feel like a mess right and that works beautifully for the narcissistic person because you look extremely like the Messier one they are actually soothed by you being off balance and they can become quite calm and composed under those conditions and may even appear to be soothing you oh babe I know you're going through a hard time I got you you just gotta do some work on yourself so then in response to that now you go into therapy because you're the one who is the mess right and they are soothing you but it was a mess that this relationship made lots of people will say ah you know what I was actually doing okay in my life when I met this narcissistic person sure I had my demons and my wounds but I was doing fine I thought I met this person we had a good thing it was fun they were smart or sexy or compelling or whatever charismatic scrumptious narcissistic thing they were and then as they do around the two-month Mark the cracks slowly appear the red flags you justify you know the usual drill as more time passes you are really confused the good day bad day cycle begins you justify you rationalize you want it to work you doubt yourself you become anxious you doubt reality you start feeling messy helpless and Powerless and then The Narcissist may say things like damn your anxiety is really stressing me out or you may find yourself feeling more and more suspicious and feel like a private eye staking out their social media or watching their rhythms because something about them feels shady and you feel like you're losing your mind or you find that you get so preoccupied and that gets in the way of work or school and you start getting more and more isolated because you're getting lost in the vortex of the of the relationship and that gets dangerous because what might be happening now is you're getting pulled away from your supports which is the only thing stopping you from being gaslighted as you start feeling Messier it becomes easier for the narcissistic person to sort of play with you cat and mouse style to Hoover you you start to believe that oh this is my person and I'm the one who's a mess and that you have to make it work you bargain with yourself you focus on the idea that someone else is going to get them who's not looking at sort of anxious as you and that you're thinking oh I'm always going to be alone because I'm such a mess and so when they do Hoover or perhaps as it feels like they're slipping away or you're in the discard phase you may even start leaning into your identity as a mess and aren't they wonderful for staying with you and it's like they are doing you a favor by staying with you despite your so-called neurosis and your anxiety and your bad memory and your emotion or your drama they make messes then they sweep in and pretend to clean them up and you believe that they are doing right by you by understanding narcissistic abuse and what it does to you you can identify this pattern that you are the one who feels like the weak one the messed up one and that you run the trauma bonded risk of subjugating yourself to needing to be rescued and allowing them back in to clean up the mess that they made this doesn't only happen in Intimate Relationships families can do this too bring you into bad schemes or plans invalidate Gaslight manipulate and confuse you feel completely upside down and then they come in and offer to fix it the therapy world can play into this as well narcissistic folks can actually present really calmly and look really well put together in couples therapy the Charming narcissist sitting next to the rather upset anxious and wide-eyed other non-narcissistic person unless the therapist knows what they are looking at it can be easily framed as well let's work on this messy person's anxiety and get this relationship tidied up that idea of fixing the other person the Survivor of the narcissistic abuse and never addressing the manipulation and the personality of the person making the mess is a real problem that can occur in couples therapy in a way it's like an arsonist who sets a fire so he can pretend to be the hero and put it out they're making a mess so they can be the fixer be aware of red flags and of what narcissistic abuse does to us how it impairs our judgment how it's not you really it's them and the worst thing you can do is allow the fixer to be the very one who broke it you aren't broken after these relationships you're confused and I must say that if you understand narcissistic abuse it's a big first step to unconfusing you you aren't damaged after these relationships again you're merely confused and this is always worse if the confusion plays on your core wounds but pay attention to this Dynamic narcissistic abuse happens you feel confused and anxious and self-doubting and self-blaming you feel messy and then the narcissistic person especially during the Hoover comes in and says oh let me take care of you it seems like you're going through a tough time in essence they're offering to clean up your mess but it's not your mess it's a mess they created and they're playing upon this diminished version of yourself the loss of self-esteem that all survivors go through if they made the mess you'll clean it up but please don't let them in to pretend to clean up the mess because they're just going to make it worse hope dies last now this proverb was actually sent in as an email by somebody who reported it was a German proverb or idiom and they pointed out that this hope dies last is different than the more common English version that we use and those of us who speak English as a primary language of Hope Springs Eternal and they are right that that proverb of Hope Springs Eternal actually has its origins in the writing of Alexander Pope but I like this saying a little bit better that hope dies last because I think it cuts to the chase in a more useful way for understanding narcissism so what does this saying what does this proverb hope dies last mean for narcissism and narcissistic abuse like I said it cuts to the chase of why people get stuck I have often spoken about the key factors that keep people stuck in narcissistic relationships fear guilt pity lack of information Still Loving the person money children and hope it is probably better to call it misplaced hope or unrealistic hope or misguided hope but at the end of the day it is Hope and what is the Hope for Hope for Change hope that the promises will be kept hope that things could get better hope that the future fakes finally come true in a narcissistic relationship this saying could not have more truth the fact is a lot of people get stuck because hope indeed does die last there are lots of reasons for this trauma bonding means a complex life comprised of justifications and rationalizations and creating reasons to stay in the relationship this is a pattern that often got set in childhood and can extend to adult relationships sometimes the people around you Foster this sense of hope and tell you that they have seen this one or that one or this difficult person change and that to give up hope to give up hope of change well that's just defeatist or negative you end up getting sort of painted as a sort of negative Nelly if you suggest that things in a given situation just can't change and if you spent an entire childhood hoping a parent would change hoping that things would get better then you know what it feels like to live in long-term hope especially when it comes to toxic situations there is a very human piece to this to give up on Hope can really feel like falling into the abyss a bit like losing faith it doesn't feel good hope keeps us going and with the Hope gone then what because so many people in narcissistic relationships have completely lost faith in themselves view themselves as being not enough have lost their self-esteem to lose hope in the relationship can and and having little faith in themselves means that to lose hope really feels like falling into the abyss it flies in the face of almost all World religious beliefs and traditions and of every feel-good motivational message you've ever seen you're not supposed to give up on Hope right so while hope does spring Eternal and does die last in narcissistic relationships it hangs by a thread throughout the relationship in fact that is the challenge of the narcissistic relationship you will have multiple days when the Hope Fades more and more and more and then one day The Hope gets rejuvenated because you and the narcissist have a good day a happy evening a connected moment then hope gets on more firm footing and the whole cycle begins again there is that penny drop moment in all narcissistic relationships when the Hope does die it looks different in every relationship sometimes it happens when the ultimate betrayal of trust happens I don't know an infidelity or they put out Child In Harm's Way or get arrested and destroy the family's finances in those cases the hope that was already teetering and fragile finally drops sometimes it is the behavior of the narcissist when you are sick you assumed that even though they weren't good useful in the day-to-day when the rubber really met the road and life got serious and you got sick you believed that they would actually finally appreciate you at that point you realize they don't and then hope dies you believe that as they get older and you help them out and you take care of them they will finally thank you and apologize for the pain they caused you and so many others throughout your life nope and then the Hope dies it could be the day that their anger and rage continue to escalate and they finally lay hands on you or physically threaten you then the Hope dies but sadly the Hope dies doesn't the Hope does not die even when there's physical violence in too many cases so there is that moment sometimes people test the narcissist wanting to keep hope alive they will put conjectures to them what if someday I got sick or you only had a year to live or something like that the answer is usually pretty bleak and then hope dice it looks different in every case but it tends to be the last thing to die in a narcissistic relationship lots of people will say they can't unsee what they saw in the relationship there is a point where to go back feels like giving up on themselves and in more than a few cases some people stay even after hope has died it happens but maybe they stay with a more realistic assessment of the situation realistic expectations and radical acceptance in a narcissistic relationship this proverb that hope dies last is not a proverb it almost feels like a truism and in an Ideal World you will find Hope in far better places than this narcissistic relationship like places like yourself and the good and respectful and reciprocal spaces in your life so let's talk about helplessness it can feel like no matter what you say in a narcissistic relationship nothing ever gets better no matter what you do in a narcissistic relationship nothing gets better even if you went to a relatively dehumanized State just gave it all up you did everything they asked of you gave up your sense of identity your sense of meaning and your sense of purpose and the people and the experiences that matter to you not only does nothing change I'd be willing to bet that sometimes it just gets worse anyone would feel helpless under those circumstances so let me give you a little bit of research background to round this out okay in the 1970s the psychologist Martin Seligman did a series of seminal studies on something called learned helplessness and I just want to say something before I go further I'm going to talk about a study that was conducted with animals and the animals were a little uncomfortable in this research and I want to let you know that in case that is going to make this hard for anyone to listen to it's mild but again it research suggests it was a minor discomfort to the dogs that were used as the research participants who didn't show long-term harm but I do know that for some of you it could be difficult to listen to so I just wanted to give you that so you would um so you'd be prepared again really no significant harm but I wanted to give you that disclaimer so let's talk about selignon's research a mini version of what he did was that he placed dogs in specially designed harnesses and boxes in a research lab and he had a way to harness them into these sort of hanging again almost hanging hammocky harnesses so that their legs were hanging down the dogs were able to use their heads to easily push at some panels that were right in front of them the dogs started to learn that a light that would turn on meant that a light shock was going to come and be applied to their hind legs which obviously they didn't like it didn't feel good for some of the dogs they learned that they could stop the shock by hitting the little panels in front of their heads when the light came on however for the other dogs when the light came on even if they hit the panels they couldn't stop the shocking okay so you're with me the moment the dogs with those panels in front of their heads touched either one the shock would end okay so you understand me so far I hope one group of dogs learned that they could end the shocks by pressing that panel with their head and the other group of dogs could not stop the shocks even if they press those little panels with their head okay so then the next day he took the dogs gave him a little rest came back took the dogs and he put them in little boxes that had sort of like a half a wall partition so they could jump over and go to the other part of the box or explore it if they wanted he set it up so that when the lights went off the floor under them on one side of the box would deliver a small shock it didn't feel good but they had the ability to jump over to the other side of the box where it was no longer shocky and they could be comfortable so here's where this research gets really interesting the dogs who had learned the day before that they could touch that panel with their head to stop the shock it was really only those dogs that would jump over to the other side of the box to get away from the shock on the second day the dog for whom when they hit the panel it didn't matter they got shocked no matter what the day before those dogs didn't try to go to the other side and avoid the shock they just sat on the shocky side of the box and kept getting the uncomfortable shocks these findings persisted even a week later those dogs learned they remembered that hitting the panel with their head would not stop a shock even a week later they still wouldn't learn to go to the other side of the box where they could escape the light shock on their feet so basically even after just a brief learning trial they learn when they learn they could not stop something unpleasant in their environment they generalize that learning and what they did was they didn't even leave when they were being when they were uncomfortable even when they could Seligman called this phenomenon learned helplessness a sort of basic learning that nothing that even nothing that an animal can do or a person if they can't do anything to fix the situation they stopped trying pretty quickly and fall into an ineffectual passivity initially the dogs did try to step away when they were in that harness and could move with the and move their heads but they stopped trying Seligman use learn helplessness as a way of understanding depression helplessness is a very common element of depression symptomatology and many many depressed people feel a sense of apathy apathy is that idea that nothing you don't feel like doing anything because you're like why bother why do anything so you can see how that that could leave a person who learns that nothing they do helps to just stop trying and get stuck just like the dogs even when opportunities and options are put in front of the person they think nothing will work or there's no point so they sort of stay stuck in a situation that is at times harming them now you can also see how this Paradigm is relevant to narcissistic abuse over years of this whether you're from a narcissistic family or have a narcissistic partner or work with a narcissistic boss you may learn you do learn that nothing you do helps it's the same invalidating mess day after day it's like Groundhog Day in hell one day you may decide to stop trying or even when the opportunity is there perhaps in another part of your life to do something to achieve something to say something you may not do it because as you have learned in the other primary parts of your life that are impacted by narcissistic abuse you learn what's the point Why Try seligman's initial experiment is particularly relevant to those of you from a narcissistic family of origin remember the dog's first learned when they could when the panel wouldn't stop the shock they learned that whatever they try doesn't matter they're going to get shocked and then though after they learned that then they were given the opportunity to make it better and get away from the harm they didn't it's very similar with narcissistic families throughout your childhood you learn that there's nothing you can do nothing you try works and so that easily generalizes into adulthood in a narcissistic family helplessness is something that develops over a long childhood listen those dogs only had to stay in those little boxes for a little while you faced all of this for a lifetime a lifetime in which nothing you did was enough where you didn't get noticed validated supported or loved no matter what no matter what you did no matter what you said you weren't heard no matter how you spoke you weren't seen and when you finally were heard or seen at that point you were often gaslighted or invalidated or dismissed and the difference between you as a child and seligman's dogs is that in your childhood you never felt like you were put in that box where you could go to the other side your harness wasn't released there was no other side of the box to jump to you were stuck in it which only reinforced the sense of helplessness fast forward to adulthood when as one could argue you were allowed to make more of your own choices and what happens you may likely have spun into yet another narcissistic relationship as an adult and this time in many cases there were times you could have gotten out of the relationship gotten to the other side of the box as it were but you didn't that childhood characterized by narcissistic abuse those Echoes waft into adulthood and your helplessness really reflects a sense of stuckness and sometimes even a helpless passivity of why botherness of it all that lingers with you and for people who are only now are learning recently learning about narcissistic abuse after a lifetime of it you didn't even recognize it as a thing before you just assumed there was nothing you could do you just had to sit there just like those poor pups and take the shocks helplessness is a major theme in adulthood narcissistic relationships often there is helplessness because a person doesn't know what they are dealing with It Takes a Minute it takes people a minute to figure out that they are in a narcissistic relationship but up until you do figure it out the helplessness is building up day over day over day that ongoing sense that there is nothing you can do which is actually a Feeling that can spin into depression anxiety and hopelessness there are few feelings that are more destabilizing than helplessness and it is such a classical part of the narcissistic abuse survivorship pattern part of helplessness is the is that idea that even if there is something I can do about this situation I myself personally can't do it or it's not going to work for me I observe this very often in narcissistic marriages yes for many people divorce is an option but for those with children or perhaps Financial issues and maybe even other religious and cultural issues it's really not an option in the United States at least and I think in other parts of the world the courts will divide custody of the children and many people know that their narcissistic partner will not be up to managing the kids on their own even though they'll try to fight for custody so folks will sometimes White Knuckle themselves through the narcissistic marriage to Shield their children from being with that other parent on their own or at least to just be under the same roof as their kids 24 7. again there is a sense of helplessness that the courts do not and will not recognize narcissistic abuse and basically you're going to have to endure the narcissist wrath until these children are adults more more of a sense of helplessness cultural issues can also play very heavily into helplessness I am often reading obviously when I can the comments on videos and the many emails that we receive narcissistic abuse is not just a global phenomenon what's interesting is that in certain parts of the world it plays out with the sort of Greater backdrop of healthlessness existing struggle structures I should say existing structures such as involuntary marriage limited rights for women or others who are otherwise socially disadvantaged taboos against divorce lack of resources or even penalties against those who perpetrate domestic abuse societally normalized gender-based violence all of these themes May mean that helplessness is likely even pronounced in other parts of the world people in certain regions of the world who face restrictive cultural assumptions may be stuck in these narcissistic relationships with literally no possibility of Escape in the workplace the same helplessness issues apply I was kind of a sick hobby of mine I study high profile cases of predators harassers and generally bad people like the Weinstein Epstein types of folks bosses who were so powerful so wealthy and lived their lives in absolute impunity but the things we learn from these tyrants apply even to us regular folks because listen we regular folks need to earn a living and the fact is HR departments don't understand narcissistic abuse people find there is often little recourse if this happens to them in the workplace and in most workplaces as in most of the world the most powerful people Prevail for all the reasons I listed people can feel very helpless in workplace situations toxic workplace situations and they'll often feel stuck especially if they're in a very narrow type of job it's a VISA situation there's not a lot of jobs out there like the world right now or their employed at a time when there's just not enough jobs and there's lots of people lined up for those jobs you feel like you have to endure the toxic situation and helplessness is one of the last stops on the train before we careen into major depression the challenge is that as is suggested by this phenomenon of learned helplessness some of this helplessness is actually in our head there is another side of the Box we could jump over after years of being taught otherwise and in many cases for people in narcissistic abuse the cages never opened there is no other side of the Box the helplessness is real and that to me is one of the most horrific things that can happen to a human being and again a classical part of narcissistic abuse so what is a person supposed to do if they're feeling helpless number one learn about narcissism watch my videos watch everybody videos read books just figure it out part of the helplessness is made worse by trying something over and over again trying to be seen trying to be heard and constantly failing basically of being the dog who can never stop the shocks by pressing the panel with his head stop trying stop work around the narcissist if you're stuck with them recognize that they're never going to listen no it doesn't feel good it doesn't feel good at all but it may lift the helplessness in some ways and I do acknowledge if you are reliant on the narcissist for basic needs that it can be very difficult to get away from the helplessness if you count on them for money food shelter that sort of thing number two try to find a way to build a sense of what we call agency in other areas of your life meaning you you do something and feel good about it it could be weeding a garden it could be doing your job it could be a small task or any task that is simply unrelated to your narcissist just get something done it may not fix the situation with the narcissist but it may at least for a short time alleviate some of that sense of helplessness even if it's just for a little for a few minutes or an hour number three yeah yeah therapy you know I'm always going to say therapy just adjust because that's how it's going to be in these videos because it matters talk to someone understand the deeper roots of your helplessness find out how much of this is you not knowing there is another side of the box you can jump to and also to avoid generalizing the experience with a few toxic relationships to all areas of your life helplessness is one of the most awful feelings in the world and interestingly seligman's research he went on to do it with many other species from fish all the way up to people and guess what all of them learned helplessness we living things actually can learn things quickly but sadly we can hold on to even the most dysfunctional lessons for too long so in a sick kind of a way many of you in narcissistic relationships many of us I should say a narcissistic relationships or sort of stuck in that harness with no button to press to stop those shocks so I want you to sort of again move yourself over to that box where you can jump over to the other side even if it's temporarily and at a minimum if you understand what's happening to you even if it feels awful just that simple sense of understanding can sometimes at least feel help you feel a little bit more control in the situation it might be a disgusted control but you might at least feel a little bit more empowered and in incapable of being able to address that situation simply by knowing what it is and saying ah there's nothing I can do so I'm not even going to try and I'm going to try to focus on the areas of my life where I actually can get something done thank you again for tuning in I hope you're enjoying this content if you are give us that thumbs up and please do subscribe and join this community bye

Channel: DoctorRamani

Views: 88,945

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Id: UwcBSBu0tXg

Length: 57min 26sec (3446 seconds)

Published: Sun Sep 17 2023