w got you guys like cuz that is something [Applause] that Littles Littles welcome back welcome back welcome back sporting one of your world favorite peaches huh is all your fault you gave me my first one did you go to Costco and pick your that was a premature pop we haven't had one of those that's that's not my normal experience we haven't had one of those live on on the old pod here oh dude it's on the that's funny well yeah kind of little in my eye H now you know what that feels like right doesn't seem all that [Laughter] fair oh there it goes yeah we had some some fire suspense here mhm I think it's going to grab though I think we're getting pretty good at this deal we've been doing it for a little while yep go work out all right so when I rolled up you were uh driving your big green tractor uh skid steer but yeah yeah was uh buing the trench that the powers in from the power pole to the house on Mom's Adu it's also got a propane line in it and a uh a blank piece of conduit for pulling data cable through if I need to at some point so and uh like 110t of trench gave me the okay to bury it today and I had some stuff I had to do earlier today and then uh ran back here and tried to get it completely buried before our committed time and I didn't quite get there I got close it's 90% hopefully nobody rolls in here in the morning and puts a tire in the ditch but um because there has been a giant pile of gravel right in the way so you couldn't like yeah you'd be you have to be a complete [ __ ] to put a tire in the ditch uh but I think we only have tomorrow I think we only have HVAC coming which they're supposed to be here till early next week the electricians are here Friday cuz apparently the HVAC crew doesn't work on Friday and they'll uh start pulling wire throughout the whole house yeah I think the people might not know how handy you actually are often times I'll show up and you'll be driving a skid steer or a chunk of heavy equipment or wrenching on something yeah I'm I've always been a a do-it-yourself guy and I think that stems from realizing that I think it was like 17 or 18 where I went all right I'm going to be a b guy for the rest of my life that's what I'm going to do so I'm never going to make any money so I better be handy so you knew right away you're like hey though yeah I can't pay people to do things for me I better I better figure out how to do them themselves this wasn't a learned um experience growing up cuz my dad was not typically that guy he um he did take on a couple of projects around the house per se but he was not a fix at yourself kind of guy he was almost always call somebody uh to fix it and I just I I learned that I I wasn't going to be able to afford that so I had to figure out how things worked um and I've I've remodeled several houses I've done additions on houses uh all places I lived other than I did actually remodel or flip two houses um where I did most of the construction um but it's just I've always had to have my own skill set and not and know that I couldn't afford to pay people I didn't ever think I'd make enough money to be able to just frivolously go yeah pay somebody to do that you know I always thought that was going to be difficult um so I wish KN we were wearing beer t-shirts I'd have worn mine um yeah it's uh it it's just been something that I knew I was going to have to do plus I like understanding how things work you know I don't necessarily like something just happening I want to understand what it takes to do it and what went into it um because I just my brain works like that no different than b stuff I just I want to understand how it works and why yeah just my brain I grew up with a dad who was he could fix anything and everything and if you didn't he'd figure it out and uh reflectively I wish I would have taken more time to listen right although still to this day when we take on when we strike on a project together it's very difficult to work with them and I know if that's a father son thing or yeah I don't know I don't know but butting heads is about happens in about the first 60 seconds oh we had plenty of that because we did um my we did for a long time go get our own firewood mhm there was always that and um we had uh yeah cuz in a firewood operation you're like negotiating some stuff right you're like hey you got to knock this down or hey it's more efficient if we do it this way or right firewood operation was always pick up the cut stuff and put it in the back of the truck Mak definitely it's definitely a good way to learn to see if you can work with somebody yeah you know what I mean for sure we did that that's a good little litness test we always had to do um try remember how many uh ton it was but we always had Al like hey mhm um for livestock or that sort of thing I had to pull that out of the field I remember I was I was driving the uh I was driving the farm truck at like 5 all you had to do is ride the brake right yeah and point and steer it while everybody else was picking up bails and throw them in the back of the truck yeah that quickly became my sister's job once I was big enough to get a bail into the back of the truck dad was always checking see if I was good enough like I strong enough to pick it up and throw it in the back of the truck and once we got to there sister went to the car and I had to I didn't realize that was actually not a good thing I wonder how many people listening have had an opportunity to make firewood with their dad where we grew up everyone did it because that's what you did and there's hardwood everywhere yeah and it logging country so literally still to this day 80 or 90% of the people have firewood some source of firewood heat sure so I'm very familiar with it that's how I um worked off payment for my first car oh I got paid per cord and being the procrastinating type that I was I decided to wait until winter break to make my firewood and then went you know guess how that weather was terrible dude it was so cold it was the coldest probably the coldest streak of the winter and I was out there grinding firewood because that's how I was going to get my car so that was a that was a very valuable life lesson in a lot of ways yeah the last time that I remember doing firewood I think at a certain point my dad started buying cut firewood that needed to be split still like rounds um I think we he had a a friend that had a bunch of property and he need buy rounds from them and I had to split them and um the last time I had to do it if I remember right I got in trouble for something and I'm trying to remember what it was I don't it didn't seem like super significant of a thing to get in trouble for and it was right as summer was starting and my dad told me I was grounded for 3 months that's deep dude and I do I for the life me have you ever been grounded for three months never not in my entire life not even remotely close to it and then he comes to me the next day and he said or you can split and stack all that firewood and as soon as you're done with that you can be ungrounded so obviously I took that route but that was that was all it was it was I'm going to give him negoti the most the most ridiculous punishment possible yeah with an out that involves him doing all this work that we would normally both do mhm yeah so and that was uh 12 quarter fire would split and stack split and stack were you hand splitting at that time uh depends on how big it was we did have a log splitter but I would I could frequently split faster faster yeah if I just hand split it and so every day I try to remember cuz I was I was working at that time too so I would go to work come home and split firewood till like 11:00 12:00 at night go to sleep get up go to work come home split firewood it took me like eight or nine days I think to uh that's that's you were hustling i d i was I had a lot of energy I still have a lot of energy but man I I I was a hardworking kid there was no way around that I mean I I learned that very young and we just we always had to work on stuff like always around the house my friend I my friends wouldn't come over to my house cuz my dad would make him work yeah so it was always like mildly inviting yourself over to your friends's houses it's like we're not going to be able to have any fun my dad's going to see another kid here and go oh get more work done labor force labor force yeah I had a few friends dads that were yeah like that but it was cool I mean looking back like everyone helped each other in that way sure so it's like yeah had B kids for one weekend I was the only friend that had that dud nobody else has did that this was not normal behavior H but um but yeah I mean I I I'm grateful realistically cuz it instilled a hell of a work ethic in me like I just don't stop working and I try to do everything myself which can be to my detriment at times yeah like I can't make myself not like I see something I go oh I can do that what am I paying somebody for that for that can be a tough that can be a tough yeah Habit to switch out of because the farther I get down the road I I'm better like going okay this cost X what's my time worth and I I could be more valuably doing this so I need to pay somebody to do that that can that can be difficult at times too and that's how it's one way to stretch yourself thin too because you end up doing more than you should and then you water down the things that you want to be doing you know mhm yeah I'm definitely guilty of stretching myself a little too thin sometimes for sure well this whole budget b thing has been a hit yeah yeah that's been it's been fun man like I'm surprised I'm genuinely still surprised how well uh budget boo can shoot and perform you know I still have more like uh I guess data driven testing I would like to do you know shooting shooting concentric circles and maybe a few rounds of Vegas and things that have more attached scores to them but I've shot enough bows now where I can kind of feel how a bow is holding how it might shoot you know mhm it's good it's really good yeah yeah I I think there's no reason I won't end up doing a hunt with one yeah they're not um just because a o cost less money doesn't mean it's not good right it's it's more you're giving up something somewhere yeah um to end up in that price point so it doesn't like I said it's well it's a little bit of that Paradox too with like Optics or say even buying a vehicle where you know you could buy a vehicle that goes 0 to 60 in say three and a half or or say 4 seconds mhm and that vehicle costs what a new vehicle might cost right but if you want to shave a half a second off of that you might double that price yeah that's a good that's a very good analogy but you're not getting double the performance I agree yeah 100% you're getting just a little bit more yeah no that's you're you're you're 100% accurate with that comparison because really you're getting 95% at midpoint you're paying for an extra 5% um and I think that's just a reflection of how hard it is to actually make a bow authentically better yep um and how far uh into the technology Rabbit Hole these companies are their those are highly developed now and well and as as Brands struggle they'll probably I think you'll see more of what K darton's doing I think you'll see them take most of what they would put in their high-end bow like more than normal and start trying to come out with a mid-price bow um if they're losing market share which U this year I think just about everybody's losing market share uh that and that's going to like draw some red flags and they got the ones that are well established for a long time and have a lot of data to pull off of will probably look at it and go wow yeah we're just we're just getting crushed this year and that doesn't mean we need to panic yep we just need to work really hard for next year's product line to to be impressive and hope that um somewhere along the way that product that we're losing to doesn't last well or have a pro have some kind of innate problem that hasn't been found yet um I've had I'm we referring to Matthews obviously but um there's been a couple of people ask me messages if I've seen durability issues tune issues I'm hearing stuff on the internet and Etc and I can attest that we've had over 200 of them through already and I haven't seen any of that um I know there was a supposedly there was a Wheeling issue with like the first couple that went out where they had to kind of excessively lean the wheels to get them working right um but outside of that I I haven't seen anything at all so I don't know if uh if we're going to see that issue any issues arise over time you could uh I do know they tend to um tune a little more finicky because the top hats when you try to move them around the cam lean moves a lot which I experienced when I tried to tune mine right before I went hunting um I'd move make one small change and it was a drastic change change in your terar yeah like drastic drastic would that be increased because of your draw length traditionally yeah yeah yeah the farther you cycle the cam the more the leans going I wondering yeah so if you said it at like 27 you're not going to see it you said it at 30 you're going to see it and it was already exacerbated because it's a shorter axle axle bow I was maxing out of bow which I traditionally don't do but it just made sense for what I was doing using it for um so [Music] there's but it is common enough like we've seen enough of them that they're they're moving a lot and sometimes you'll have a hard time getting the bow to tune without moving the arrow rest a bit so um but I think I got a solution for that so oh that's cool more to come yeah um I was going to say on the the target thing is kind of a similar parallel to me too is initially as soon as I got Target so excited to shoot it and I was like oh man this thing is going to be twice as good as a hunting bow mhm and that's not true uh they hold better how much percent hard to quantify but it's like you're doing a lot to get a little you know you're you're really you're doing a lot to get a little and and it's fun um yeah when you're playing a game where every Point counts you got to do a lot to get a little Advantage yep and uh it's interesting yeah are are you any more near settled on what what kind of bow are you gonna be carrying around since the last time we sat down here and I haven't touched a bow no no I'm uh I've still got a pretty good chunk of videos to film before I can jump into those I'm hoping to be doing at least the first one next week I'm hoping um so we'll see yeah but uh yeah and I'm I'm burning time because we got how long till we go to that's right yeah it's like a month and a half yeah it's roughly mhm yeah so I got like six weeks we got San Antonio tack coming up yeah so I could do I got to do like at least two of them a week starting next week to really have some time behind it cuz I don't want to show up with something I ain't shot and then readings like right after that so I still got to shoot my target bow in there which is yeah the first week of May second week of May God why does my life suck I don't yeah well then you know maybe some hunting after that yeah so whatever bow I take to tack probably wouldn't have like a hunting Arrow weighted arrow in it I wouldn't think I'd probably want to be able to get some some better ballistics on that well in my mind has changed on that a little bit too after the recent 3D shoot and seeing how well a lighter Arrow can fly um yeah as far as cutting the wind and having forgiveness on your sight tape I I think that's a bigger deal than I would have anticipated it to be yeah yeah less significantly less Wind Drift you can shoot further your gaps are tighter you're less penalized by maybe being off a yard and um yeah and if you're just doing a 3D event I mean like there might have been some advantage to what I was doing the whole time oh yeah yeah big time you were holding I don't know big I don't know big time time well whatever really big time it was almost unfair I think we should probably Mi any prev I bet you do think any and all past previous results probably should be wiped clean um yeah but if you are going to an event like that I mean if you're close to hunting season I would recommend running your hunting arrows just to test them and it would be hard to retune get ready but if you're not close to hunting season certainly I would think about building eight or 10 or 12 arrows um that could be your 3D arrows well if there's a good chance you're going to break them or lose them anyway you know why not go ahead and shoot something that's going to give you an advantage yeah in that scenario I mean I I get some people want to use their full hunting equipment for that environment and I totally get that there's nothing wrong with that but if you're going from a looking at from a standpoint of this is a fun weekend with the boys and having a good old time why not give yourself a little bit of an advantage you know I don't think that's a bad thing no I think it's a good thing and uh something you could definitely pay close attention to because those little those little darts there's there's something to it there's something to it you don't say yeah what's still interesting to me is at ASA most people are shooting fat arrows but when you go to reading most people are shooting skinny arrows mhm is that wind or is that longer shots and accuracy a little bit of both I think it's a combination I mean most of your ASAS what's their Max I don't know but I see a lot of their shots being 20 to 45 yards yeah so wind doesn't have nearly as much of an opportunity to take effect inside a 50 because it hasn't it's barely left your boat mhm whereas you know a ton ofier stuff at reading is over 50 and reading's traditionally a little bit of a windy event right yeah it can be there there's areas where you'll more commonly get that um but typically yeah you when it when it comes down to Ultimate Precision like you won't ever go to a Target tournament an outdoor Target tournament and typically see somebody using a big Arrow well yeah field they use skinny arrows typically right typically yeah you normally don't see people shooting large diameter arrows and that is a that is a tournament where hitting the next line will get you the next point so if that really matters that much when do you see them doing it you don't they're always shooting smaller diameter arrows it's very very very rare you'd ever see somebody shooting a big one yeah so I think that just goes to show you that if it's ultimately accuracy driven a smaller arrow is probably going to do better I mean you might see some 204s versus some 166s or you know 4 mm 5 mm that sort of thing yeah um but in general yeah I mean if they're shooting target archery they're shooting small arrows it's pretty unlessa unless it's ASA yeah which ASA is 3D archery it's not target archery oh okay yeah you should qualify that for the audience are you shooting at a threedimensional foam animal at 60 yards an in yeah that's three that's not Target yeah target isth arrows lots of distance um ultimate accuracy which that's the different that's Target's motto right 3D is was originally created as a simulation for hunting that has become competitive so they make scoring on it and they make different rings in different spots to create challenges and things of that nature but It ultimately is a hunting game which is why it's inside of 50 yards yeah cuz they're trying to say hey this is how far you should be hunting or less it's so interesting to me and I couldn't figure out something about ASA just I I enjoy watching it enjoy following it but something to me just felt a little off like there's something here and I think what it is now is that the the two separate games right the unknown game and the known game MH and typically when you watch a sporting event all those athletes are thrown into the same game right right and then we see who shakes out yep and man I would like to see that you know I would like to see all the all these guys and gals together shooting the same thing and see what shakes out um now that could be said at like a Vegas or whatever they're all shooting the same thing same line but at the 3D level you know does does Levi still come out on top or does Dan McCarthy still come out on top um so I guess I I guess I don't know ASA well enough to know that um the guy who shoot unknown don't also shoot known I don't believe they I don't believe so no I don't think so huh I I assume they were like on different days and you could shoot no one day no they're shooting same day different divisions H yeah huh yeah yeah I I kind of feel like the unknown which is probably not going to be very popular to state does anyone not hunt with a Laser Rangefinder ever yeah like ever ever yeah like so why do we still have that I yeah I unknown as like an old school thing right it was well IBO was always unknown yeah and any 3D tournament you'd go around here like when I was a kid up till oh God 35 I want to say was all unknown like you had to guess so the person that won 3D was typically the person that was best at judging yardage yeah cuz that was the biggest variable especially when bows were slower like you didn't have the same ballistic drop so down to the yard got really critical and that was a skill that I was really good at younger like I my dad taught me to how to judge yardage and then I I got another method I practice it all the time I'd be walking somewhere and constantly guessing how far away something was um working on my depth perception really well and then um Dan Evans taught me a method at he how he did it and then I from now I use that method um because it's more of a check on how good you are at it and it seems to work really well so but uh yeah the the best can you elaborate on that and give a synopsis yeah so I I would take three me three different measurements to make my average yardage measurements so I would take let's say the target's sitting out there at for funes 35 yards so i' I walk up to the Target relative size of the Target and estimate how far away it is walk all the way up no no no no no no walk up to the position you're going to shoot from look at the Target and estimate how far away it is just by looking at the Target yeah and then pick a spot halfway in between it figure out how far you think that is multiply it by two yep okay so then that's your second number and then your third number is count the yardage all the way up to the Target and see what you come up with then take those three and take the average of that and shoot and it worked very well it really did as long as you didn't convince yourself of the first one was right you know if you went authentically okay where's halfway mhm that's halfway how far do I think that is oh I think that's 16 yards so that means it's 32 yards my first estimate was 35 right relative size looking at the Target 35 and then count okay that's 5 yards that's nine yards that's 13 yards that's 18 yards 21 27 30 31 oh okay so I've got 31 32 and 35 so that means I'm going to shoot it for 32 and half did you ever hold the bow up and and use the scope size as a reference for the size of the Target or that's a common way to J judge on uh Target dots because there's in nfaa and a couple of other disciplines they have certain size dots at certain distances so if you know the dot size and you know how big your scope appears at a given yardage you should be able to pull it up and put it on it and go okay that's this much or that much based off of how it frames up in your scope when you pull it back yeah that's another meth method of cheating that's legal so that's size relevance of something on your bow mhm um and that's not entirely uncommon in I'm trying to remember I want to say it was some form of USA archery because it was an unknown distance and you're trying to figure out how far away the target is so and that was a there's a method to it like that's part of where they would move their scope in and out to make sure it hit this exact yardage on the right dot size with the hoop size to where you pulled it up and went yep that's 40 yards yeah CU it scales correctly well it was somewhere about college for me when when golf made the transition to allowing allowing people to use rangefinders in events mhm so I had a ton of experience as well calculating distances and basically if it was within like say 25 yards of 25 yards of a marker typically you have 100 150 200 and then you would go to where that marker was and Pace or make an educated guess off of where that marker was but if if it was within 75 yards I was always eyeballing it and that's still what I do to this day is I'll just look at it use my eyes to best estimate the distance and um hit the shot um you'll see a lot of people now that play golf they'll they'll range all the way into like 30 yards um I don't do that but yeah I mean rangefinders are common practice in golf now I mean I would just it' be curious to see them all get thrown into the same event and and uh just see how it shakes out it'd be cool yeah well it depends which event is it you're going to throw them into yeah throw them into the known yardage or you going to throw them into the unknown yardage I think you know naturally the progression would be to throw them all into the known yardage well and if you did that I think there's more I think there's more money in the unknown is there I think there is yeah I'm trying to remember in the in the contingency there could be more money for sure just the total pot sure yeah but and if there's more money in the contingency that seems a little interesting to me um but obviously the unknown distance is the more challenging one so now you're eliminating the more challenging event for a less challenging event cuz if it's it's known distance it's easier I mean you don't have that excuse there's a skill that your Precision just becomes uh more important well sure but where are you drawing the line between Target and 3D yeah I don't know right it's a good questions yeah I I as much as I enjoy using Rangefinder and knowing the yardage and eliminating all that I kind of wish they didn't have it at all I mean the the premise of that that was what that skill was it was amazing like you'd have Target style tournaments around here and the guys that would win those was never the same guy winning the 3D shoot not even close yeah it was rare uh there every once in a while there was a carryover guy that was really good at both MH that was really good at judging yardage and really good at traditional just style target archery and you'd once in a while have a guy who could manage to win an indoor event win an outdoor event and win a 3D event but it's not that it's not that common normally it's a skill set that somebody else is really good at that doesn't really dominate this this is a little bit of a side note but what what kind of binos do you like carrying with you to an event twelves in general yeah um I I have uh I pretty much primarily use sski binoculars and um I had a pair of tens that I brought to the last event and I wished I had twelves yeah like I like twelves cuz you can just see that much more in depth at those distances and tell especially when you're trying to determine points of aim yeah yeah that helps a lot it really does um good good Optics are Priceless I can't even I can't emphasize that enough I know that some of that stuff's just ridiculously expensive and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense but one remember that once you buy that thing if you buy really good ones authentically good ones not kind of good ones not mid-priced good ones if you're spending legit money on them you're rarely ever going to lose money on them because they just get more expensive I've owned a good amount of high-end Optics between sski and Leica and I think even at one point0 owned to Zeiss um and I've rarely ever lost money on them that's the odd thing it's like they just keep increasing in value because a really good piece of Optics doesn't depreciate and they typically last lifetime so if you you know if you just rip off that Band-Aid once in your 20s or something like that you've got great binoculars the rest of your life you're never going to need to replace them unless you just want to but they're always going to work well I mean I have two pairs of my dad's sasis that are 40 years old and 50 years old I still I still take one of them tree stand hunting the whole time maybe just feel close to my dad but yeah but they still are good like I'm not I'm not sacrificing a level of quality by using those now do they have they made improvements yes are those improvements drastic no and I would still take like my dad's 50-year-old horo prism sovis like these were the basic version and put them up against most of your modern 15,000 to $1,500 binoculars like they're just as good if not better and they're 50 years old so if you just buy good binoculars once you're done yeah for life it is true really like a Buy on cry on kind of thing yeah or you can buy 15 pairs of mid-price binoculars for your whole life yeah cuz there's not they are not the same thing Edge retention light transmission Clarity is so different and if you spend a lot of time looking through binos you'll know and if you buy really good binos you can look for hours and you won't get a headache you buy mid-price binos 15 minutes you start getting a headache yeah cuz you're because they're not just perfectly aligned with each other and a lot of it depends on Hunting style too right like if you're hunting somewhere thick and you only need to see 100 yards that's different but if you're well I don't know do you need to see some do you need to see 100 yards in really low light yeah I understand being able to identify what you're shooting at is pretty important yeah and there if you take a a $500 ,000 binocular and a $2,000 binocular out with 3 minutes of visual light left it is like night and day brightness difference it's crazy I remember my dad always that was his thing he always bought loophole good scopes for his rifles and he's like let's look through them at a dusk he's like it literally looks brighter looking through a loop hold 100% there's two things you want to test yeah in good binoculars and one is the last bit of visual light and compare and try to pick out objects right one and two Edge retention Edge retention is where you pull up and look at something and then try to focus on the corner of the glass like the middle of the glass is almost always going to look pretty good but when you get to the outsides of it how clear is that how clean is it is it just as clear as the middle I've also heard that's where good stuff comes from a couple good glasses say that uh looking into the Shadows is a good test yeah sorry I should have mentioned that it's night and day too yeah like you can because the same thing as low light right it's the same thing as low light in midday you take a you know mid pric bino and pull up you see shadows and you can't they're black you take a good binocular up you pull up and look at the shadows and you can see right through them and see what's behind them I just made that connection cu for a while I didn't understand why looking into the Shadows was so important as a test I mean obviously you want to seeing more as better but didn't understand why that was a good test but now thinking about low light being very similar to that yeah yeah super important thing yeah yeah and there are definitely some parallels to camera stuff and from that perspective but yeah you'll see it it's not it's not that hard to tell it really isn't it's just you typically and when you have that mid-priced bino it looks good for what you're doing right it's like oh well these are clear I can see right well sure but try to use it in those environments and all this and then have a good one next to it to compare with yeah which is hard to do you know that's one kind of unique thing that we have because of where we are we do sell sovi and you can take them outside and use them yeah so you can actually see those things whereas a lot of places like if you're in a Cabellas for example in the store I mean how are you going to tell anything you know what's a little interesting here is um a guy or gal will spend more and more commonly 10 or 15 grand on a custom hunting rifle it's become exponentially more common common than it was 10 years ago but as these bow prices have pushed up 500 bucks like that same crowd is just whining about it you know what I mean sure like there's not there's not a $8,000 bow out there if you kit out the most expensive bow it's well if you go to the target bow side I can find a way to yeah if you go to the Target side a little more but if you kid out the most expensive hunting bow it's three grand yeah you can be more than that yeah if you get it's yeah with some fancy bars you can spend a little more well well if you pick up a a Garmin site I mean they're 1,200 bucks but they're illegal in half the states sure but it but it does exist you know let's say okay let's say an ultra view 600 yeah say the most expensive hunting bow um and we're not going to go hunting with a title 36 in Black yeah so what 1850 RX RX8 carbon yeah yeah so I was disregarding carbon I was thinking Alum it's not fair to disregard carbon when you're talking about a $115,000 rifle so we can say two grand are they not putting Carbon on the $15,000 rifle we say two grand for the bow 600 for the site so you're at 2600 um 3 $300 is probably your top arrow rest so 29 okay yeah just keep the tally and I'll give you the most expensive option um quiver probably 250 is probably your your Peak yep 3150 okay stabilizers now if we take Matthews out of the equation because we picked a carbon bow so we can't pick a a carbon bridg loock stabilizer right so you have to eliminate those so we're maybe 180 bucks is probably like your ceiling in a in a single bar but if you did like two bars in a V bar right so we're and quick disconnects let's say you spent $500 on that yeah soide 500 3650 3650 um aftermarket strings because I mean you're talking about a $115,000 rifle so you're replacing everything you can add another 200 bucks 3850 3850 okay so and then you know Peep and loop maybe put 50 bucks in for like the most expensive thing you could pick well technically you could get a verifier and whatnot but that's that's like correct division stuff so let's just say the nicest thing so you're at 37 3900 3900 and then let me think okay that pretty much covers all the stuff you can bolt on the bow now do you want to add arrows in there sure okay so let's say you did uh X10 parallels titanium components so per dozen your 250 for the Aros let's say you put lighted knocks in all of them you can spend 50 bucks an arrow let's call it 50 bucks an arrow I think it can be more than that actually you put iron Wheels out front it can be exactly yeah but but your $155,000 customers is not doing that he probably is right so let's let's see how expensive an arrow can really be yeah let's just do one okay and then we'll figure out a multitude for that so let's say you know 25 bucks a shaft you're 10 bucks a component or 12 bucks yeah the most expensive one's like 12 that exists so now you're 22 or 20 sorry 25 so 37 let's say put a lighted knock in the back of it at 12 50 bucks and then you're going to fletch it the veins are going to be a dollar the labor is probably going to be five so now you're 56 and let's say you let's say you paid for custom spine aligning that's another you know $5 narrow so what do you at there you're 61 61 okay and then you put a $40 broad it on the front of it 100 bucks an arrow yeah so you can have a $100 an arrow now we've established that a $100 arrows possible it's we're going crazy but I mean being fair there's people that use that stuff MH so now we're talking 00 a dozen now let's put two dozen arrows on there cuz it's it's well it's not entirely uncommon I'm telling you like I've had people walk in want certain number of arrows so we go from 3900 at the bow mhm okay and then you add the arrows if you're putting $2,400 in arrows okay so keep going that would be $3,900 plus 12200 is 5100 6,300 okay so 6,300 we haven't bought a release yet and a backup release right yeah so let's say $300 a pop on two releases right 6,900 okay and we got to put that in a fancy case we protect it cuz a $15,000 rifle comes in a case right so let's say 500 600 is like your mhm there so then now at another 600 yeah so you're at 7500 and we haven't had any tools or anything to work on it we need any of those does that come with a custom rifle too tools work I might I don't know I don't know um but I most of your custom rifles do come with its own custom load development that a human being actually spent their time doing so how much are we paying our human being to fully site in this bow because that's what you're buying then how many hours are going to be in that I don't know you tell me well I would think if I would think if you're doing really qualified work for something like that it's probably a minimum 150 bucks an hour and there's probably yeah they're only their 500 on there for labor yeah to do it that way probably probably minimum I mean because if you're Broadhead tuning and all that it might even be more but let's throw it on there so how much how much do we end up at 800 8,000 there you go there's an $8,000 bow it's doable get out yourx Brandon's little $5,000 bow thing just got Shattered by things we already make and you can buy two of them for the same price as a custom rifle yeah comment down below and if you want me to build that for you I'll do it yeah why not yeah um yeah that was kind of cool just to see what you could spend but TW yeah 24 arrows all shaft out with iron Wheels I mean that'd be that'd be balling out pretty hard yeah um now granted that's probably your most expensive option kind of thing you know yeah yeah I can tell you though there's enough there's enough companies out there now that are making broadheads that are 30 to 40 bucks a piece this is not unbelievable by by any means it's become moreon and there are more expensive arrows than that they're just not typically ever hunted with they can exist they can be done I mean you could add oh there's $40 Arrow arrows out there shafts right so you could technically be more but realistically that's probably your your Primo hunting arrow and you know a rip TKO isn't much behind cost on that which is a really common selling arrow for us like we s arrows are about 250 a dozen at the highend they're 215 dozen for shafts yeah and we established how much you can spend building out an arrow right so yeah it can be it can easily get out to that point if you really want you know it's definitely a definitely a realistic possibility yeah that'd be a good video for you to make that's the most expensive thing I could possibly build no the $8,000 bow $8,000 bow the $88,000 bow setup that's and then whoever wants to buy this bow comment down below and I'll sell it to you that's a great title yeah the $88,000 bow how out of control has this gotten yeah yeah well the funny part I mean you only you if you if you did that with uh a Matthews instead you'd only be like a 33 you'd only be $500 behind it and yeah because the B the only thing changing is the base and you get to use their fancy stabilizers you could use their fancy stabilizers which would probably add 100 to 200 and you throw and you can throw a shot sense and it so boom there you go you can do it with the Matthews for the same amount of M be more expensive if you bought some weights for those stabilizers oh God yeah like a lot of them they're freaking pricey yeah but yeah every other price point that I mentioned you could put in theirs for sure yeah yeah are there any I mean so we got a couple hot bows right are there any real sleeper bows this year you feel like are getting looked over a little bit hot bows what do you mean hot Bows Oh popular yeah like you got the top three most people know about are there any like little sleeper niches I think the D and consequence is obviously a sleeper bow that a lot of people are learning about but that's in the budget category yeah but and maybe in the mid price category or um the flagship category well I I can't say I can't say any of it's getting overlooked but the one that's probably at least for us cuz like we're not hardly selling anything else yeah um I I'm feel for Hoy I really do because they did so much work yeah they really did they like they put their best foot forward this year and when you're when you're measuring things up for physical weights really where they're getting it because I mean that bow feels awesome it shoots good it's tunable I mean it's not the it's a more of a crude tuning system but it's still very tunable it the draw Cycle's nice the weight's significantly less than it was a year ago the stability is there it's it's a great bow but it just comes out a quarter pound heavier and at the end of the day when a guy's test firing him he's usually going to feel that and then he doesn't typically buy it now it doesn't mean that all people don't typically buy it some do but I mean it's I mean Matthew's aluminum Bow's lighter and hoy's carbon bow yeah like what do you do with that yeah ho's got hoy's got the fat limbs it's got the nipple of Destiny yeah it's got It's got a lot of awesome features and whatnot that you'd like it's very feature filled even some their own unique features which Matthews has some of their own unique features as well it's just like there's going to be haters that are going to like hate the fact that I say that right that that Matthews just simply did a better job but if you pay attention to the numbers they did you might like the way one bow feels over another and that is your prerogative and why you should always shoot all the bows and try them because not everybody's going to feel things the same way but if you measure those bows from from a fundamental stats standpoint they beat him in every category other than maybe draw cycle maybe with the the hoit draw cycle depending on what draw length you set which cam at yeah which module at feels better so don't also go my Hoy pull is way better than that Matthews did well depending on what draw length you have to set that hoid at it might or it might not yeah so it's it's just a tough one it really is and I I can't I see I feel like I say this all the time but I can't commend Matthews enough for doing as much work as they did they really did and anybody is going to sit there and say that's the same bow is a [ __ ] idiot that is not the same bow it's very different you don't know what you're talking about if you're saying that you haven't really looked at it or you don't understand what goes into building a bow every part of that bow has been rebuilt and same with white like every part they built which normally doesn't happen normally it's a we're going to revise the limb this year yay we're we're going to revise the cam a little bit this year cam a little it's a smoother draw yeah we got a new limb pocket and oh we're we got we got a new Riser even though it's like the exact same forging as we were using before and it's like the same stats but it looks different MH like no these are completely redesigned products and it just sucks it just sucks for Hoy that they completely redesigned their product the ear Matthews completely redesigned their product too I like I swear these guys know what the other ones doing or something cuz it was just so wild that they both did the exact same things they addressed the same things uh and both of them neglected to address the tuning issues right the how hard it is to move your cam back and forth and how much when you move it it adjusts they neither of them addressed that but outside of that I don't know a thing they didn't address so I just I feel I guess it's I couldn't shouldn't call it sleeper but I feel bad for ho but if you if you took Matthews off the table I like if you Matthew just stop making bows today I bet you Ho's dominating the market this year because they made so much of a change and they're also coming in at a really lightweight and the bow feels really good It's just tough when Matthews did the same thing and they weigh less you can't ignore that as much as people want to go oh it's just a lighter bow well you can't ignore the fact that it's a functionally lighter bow and how hard it is to do that it is not an easy thing to do what they did it's really not neither is it easy to do what hoit did I mean I mean both of them increased their machine Time by a lot with what they did MH they made their bow cost more to make but didn't really raise the price much and I've heard someone say before that Matthews wins a lot of three yard or five yard tests yeah where did I hear that I heard that too um and I I do believe that to be true because I think most people when they're comparing a bow and the things they're looking for and feeling um and they shoot the major side by side there's a lot of reasons that the Matthews will consistently come out on top you know this is true yeah so but in general what else do you have to go off of right yeah yeah it's not it's not everyone's got this idea like oh would be cool to build them and test them and like that's really only possible for you uh because you know one you own an archery shop so you got access to the equipment you got you got you're capable of doing that but it's not a realistic test for the common person well I have a I have a question that relates back to your Matthews wins a lot of three yard three yard events or whatever verage that the three yard so explain to me how winning a three yard test makes a the bow worse right it doesn't yeah so they're winning a physical weight test yeah right they're winning a vibration yeah hand shock vibration test sound a lot of times people perceive sound yeah sound test which you can tell right if you're paying attention you can tell might even be winning a cycle test depending on the individual if we're talking about winning a lot of three yard yeah it depends on the individual so how is that negative and how is that not reflecting as a more positive product yeah it's not it's like well that bow doesn't shoot very good like what yeah excuse me yeah you're going to see shoot good you're GNA see so many things won with a title it's stupid and a title is basically just a a long lift with more of a forward limb slope like any target bow would have mhm so yeah Limbs and well way wider Big Daddy fat yeah they're like three and a half inches wide it's like Jesus yeah yeah wide enough you got to redesign every press truck son you know what I'm saying oh Back That Ass Up yeah um yeah and our little Target Community around here is definitely uh digging it the number of people that pick up that bow and shoot better than they ever have is stupid yeah it really is I don't know I I mean I can I can only assume what the secret sauce is and when it comes to that but it is crazy like I just another guy B last week that shot the best best score he's ever shot in a Target tournament the first time he shot it how's that possible unless that bow authentically shoots better and easier well and from people who know what they're doing yeah a lot of these people that shoot a lot they're they're very good tests of product in their own right because although their shooting style may be different from another person they know really well how how a Bo holds and performs for them so when they put it in their hands like oh my float's a little better or maybe my misses are a little more forgiving um yeah that's uh it's a subjective test but it's a really good version of a subjective test yes absolutely yeah and then you take and you you parse that across you know a patch of 20 40 100 people and you can you know gather some really good Intel yeah yeah I've never I've never had a new target bow come out that I've gotten that response so frequently but granted I am selling more Target bows than I ever have yeah into a larger Community than I ever have yeah so but and you know you always get guys going oh man this bow shoots so great you don't get I've never shot a better score in my life right that when you don't you go man this bll just points awesome it shoots great which you know it's that new bow feel you always get that right or that new bow whatever you want to call it but you don't traditionally get I've never shot a better score in my life yeah and that's happening a lot yeah I I definitely see more people picking up a target b I think from the hunter uh crossover group and I think that's cool I've seen a lot more of that this year for sure and uh if here's kind of my hot take is like if it keeps a person shooting more year round it's great it's awesome yeah how is this a bad thing if you're going to shoot your B bow more because of it if you're going to get more practice tuning more practice setting bows up it's awesome it's another reason to do it um so go run out and buy a target bow head on over to pod march.com for all that marcher needs yeah we'll sell you a title we'll sayell you Super X we'll sell you a reckoning we'll sell you Stratos H we'll even sell you a remedy an elite remedy a remedy yep got that one added so yeah what about any the target b the world is your oyster is uh is the chyros a target bow is that no it's a hunting bow that's a shorter draw length hunting bow okay yeah yeah that's the ethos with the smaller cam yeah yep yeah the ethos is is a sleeper bow um yeah if I if I had to take quite off the table that's probably the next one I would pick it doesn't have any Integrations right none of the fancy Integrations nope no Integrations just flat good specs good brace height good axle to axle decent good gri decent reflex good grip good speed really good speed Wonder wonderful draw cycle um when I tested him yeah draw cycle like the draw cycle to speed ratio yeah now that I think about it I I think the winner of that for me so far was my previous ho vtm 34 how it felt versus the speeds It produced MH but the Athos might outperform that if if I shot more arrows through it I could give a more accurate answer but it's right there for how good it feels versus how fast it is at my draw length which is a little bit of a caveat there because you know the the tests are done at 30inch draw length I'm a 29 inch draw and depending on where the the the cam is relative to the peak of the cam can change how it feels right yes exactly that's a little caveat but that's that onep that one just hit different for you draw draw real smooth and the grip's Fantastic I was very impressed with it I really was that was the one that was the one I think that was the first bow I tested this year and when I started using a new scoring system and like I would re I would take back the the speed score I gave it I'd give it a higher score now that I've seen enough other ones against it now that I've got a database to go against it and I guess that's going to be the negative of the first bow I test or the first two bows I test cuz I just I don't have anything your Baseline is yeah but I can always use the previous years now that I've got a ranking system well the more you do it the better you get that's kind of the beauty of it the more you do it the better you get the more refined your opinion is and mhm yeah it's like anything else um yeah now we're not going to see any kind of new new product in the near future right as far as bow launches or you know is there anything interesting coming down the pipeline that you know about well I I'll actually be really surprised if somebody doesn't do a midyear bow launch and I say that from the standpoint of with how much of the market is being taken up by one brand well the that means the other ones aren't selling as many yep um so somebody somewhere will panic and try to launch something new or throw something in mid year which that happens at times sometimes they'll have a that's usually the response from a manufacturer when they have a a poor launch which not to say they're having poor launches I just I know how many lifts were maybe they change a feature or two and just try to create a new hype cycle kind of thing oh no they'll launch a different bow oh really yeah they traditionally don't change an existing bow period they you know they come out with something different um so they might do a midyear launch or something like that and I'll be surprised if we don't see it from somebody but you know who knows uh I don't know of any new shocking um equipment that's being launched whether it be accessories rests Etc um arrows things like that and I mean I have things I'm working on but I'm not talking about about them cuz I'm tired of emails and messages but here so let's say this when you do get ready to a point yeah you got to do a proper launch you can't just be like oh this product's available you got to like build the hype properly you know what I'm saying okay Dad because I've I've observed both and uh there's if you build the hype right you'll you'll do way better on a launch yeah yeah but you just have to know when that completion date is yeah I have more more of a I guess I don't look at what I'm doing from enough of a business standpoint I'm making things that I intend on making the sport better with just like I'm making content that I intend to make the sport better with so I'm not following the the pattern of what's going to make it do the best I'm am simply trying to provide yeah right so if I make a new product I just make the new product and say here it is hopefully it works and helps or or and it's usually to solve a problem that I'm seeing or getting yeah right so I don't I don't look at it like that maybe I need to I don't know but um I'd just rather make something that solves a problem and not make a big deal out of it because I'm a little hesitant on some of this stuff to go out and build enough ahead of time that you can actually fulfill a demand if you created a massive demand um so we'll see going forward how I want to do that but I know my what you would call a soft launch I guess um gives me a good idea of how many how popular something's going to be so I know roughly how many to make and how many to maintain um I couldn't fathom making a 50 grain titanium 5mim insert and making 10,000 of them right out of the gate and just being that confident which in hindsight that probably would have been great but if it didn't turn out well or if there was something wrong with it 10,000 would have broke me I mean what they cost I mean that's $8,000 in inserts can you stand to lose $80,000 if something went wrong no I'm not not quite there yet you know I'm not a I'm not a massive manufacturer nor do I ever nor do I ever think I will be well another another kind of cool way to do that what you're describing is like you get a small amount a product out to a core group of people that you trust opinions you know and then they can like get you some feedback supposed to copy Ultra viw what's that I supposed to copy Ultra viw oh no no no no I mean they're that that's a finished product they're sending it out to uh people to to build that hype um from a marketing perspective but this would be like a uh maybe like an extended feedback peer group of like maybe 20 or 30 people where maybe they buy it at a hard cost or something and I'll probably do that with the Fletching jig when it's ready and then you kind of Garner some feedback and you're like okay okay this thing's ready and then you you know build a final or or sign off on a final and then like okay I got a final now we get a launch date and then hey there's something wrong being sold out like that means things went well yeah that one's the I think the the Fletching jig's probably the one that has the biggest dud I can't believe your OMP uh video did a bunch of views um that means there's some demand for Fletching and I didn't know that because it makes sense it's Prime for disruption because I mean people are still using a bitzenburger like that's the it's pretty archaic that's super archaic yeah and and let's be real here the OMP is just a redefined bitzenburger yeah it's a better mouse trap it's yeah but but is it it's it's not that drastically different either it's like you addressed one or two of the complaints and one of them not very well yeah um and just made another one y yeah so it's it's a little bonkers that it's that that video is done as well and I mean we sold everyone we had in half a day MH um and I've I've got sounds a little bonkers but I've got like a thousand on order MH and I'm supposed to actually get a chunk not a big chunk like enough to cover a 100 I think uh in another 20 days or 30 days and then hopefully most of the remainder by like June or July yeah but they're going to be sold out for over a year and that's that and that's the concern if you you know nail something that someone really feels as a home run um I always thought my uh my Fletching jig when it was done if it works the way I want it to work and does what I want it to do and is within the price point that I want to do that it's a 10,000 unit in the first year product that's a lot right for in my mind when I know how many they have on order yeah and how many they are selling for the first year that would probably exceed them right on a product that has been visually shown for over a year before they ever sold one and shipped one mhm right so I don't know and I I kind of thought most people forgot about it because it been a whole year so I was a little nervous when I got them yeah well they definitely goofed up that hype cycle a little bit if they're showing it a year in advance well I don't they didn't expect to have the problems they had sure like they and I think I think it just didn't pass difficult yeah yeah so it's that part's a little tricky but yeah um there's clearly the Fletching jig Department which is what I originally wanted to make was the the place that I thought had the most potential of growth like nobody's really nobody's really hit the nail on the head Prime for disruption like that that bits andb Burger is old it's clunky doesn't work well takes forever to Fletch but it does Fletch efficiently it does the job it's just uh man I'm not a product designer and I could probably design something that's a little more efficient I'm sure whatever iteration you're working on is going to be great so fires out that's it when you when the fetching jig does come out you'll find it at puty march.com $99 up all your archery needs somebody said well how much is it going to cost to ship the bow talking about the budget bow of which people do want a pre-made by the way yeah I've I've got got a couple emails on it too um shipping it will just $99 up shipping is free I was like you haven't heard freaking Josh say that but maybe they yeah but the only worry there is you know we're we're trying to hit a price point and it would sure be a lot smarter to ship it in a bow case but now you're talking another $300 right yeah so that new SKB case that's $289 uh I should start to have those pretty quick that's a hell of a nice case for under 300 bucks but now you're adding $300 to it so yeah we'll have to try to figure out a way to box up the bow where it's kind of safe once you put everything together anyway guys discount code timc will help uh save you some money on that stuff and uh yeah helps helps helps us out helps feel what we do and um yeah we'll catch you back on the uh the old next pot huh oh yeah oh yeah
