and that's why you're not really feeling a torque from the seat of your hog any questions [Music] when I rode the new Royal Enfield I was flabbergasted to find Pirelli Phantom sports cops and that's like getting a Faberge egg in your Kinder Surprise it's a 250 dollar tire on the after market om on Ducati is maybe but royal enfield sweet well yes but actually no this is a classic manufacturers trick lookey lookey I bought an aftermarket Pirelli and it cost me my left nut the tread depth is 5 millimeters and it bares the plant code for bribery Germany om Pirelli Phantom sports comps look identical I cannot tell the difference until I measured the tread at a pitiful 3 millimeters and notice a plant code for gravity Brazil and we all said together what the [ __ ] what kind of charade is this hello I'm a motorcycle maker and I want your premium tire brand on my bike and I'll buy 10,000 sets of rubber if you can get it done for 50 bucks a pop so the tire maker says what the polygamist you went on The Bachelor said yes I will stand my reputable name on a tire for that price but I'll have to make it in my cheapest factory with the cheapest rubber and not much of it either so the motorcycle maker says perfect thin rubber rolls with less resistance all the better for acing fuel efficiency stats and shallow tread depth is quieter so our bike will appear more refined on test rides now of course this doppelganger will have none of the long-term performance that its reputable name once earned but who cares about mileage as long as it makes it one mile from the dealership the sale is made yikes perhaps we should have been skeptical about tires especially designed to complement a new bike maybe we could have spotted the minut discrepancy in product codes but really what you gonna do and just accept that your fancy OEM tires might be big fat zeros burn through the trickery and look forward to your first quality aftermarket set ready [Music] mass is a simple and substantial question unfortunately manufacturers can take even the fundamental physical property and make it tricky and if you ask Triumph weight is dry no fuel oil coolant even things like brake fluid for coil battery acid can be drained all right I'm 12 pounds lighter without any blood in my veins this is a useless and misleading metric but one we're all familiar with Harley Davidson lists weight in running order of course a bike will run with a teaspoon of fuel in the line so that means precisely dick Japanese brands typically list curb or wet weight full reservoirs of all the required fluids though they're not above leaving detachable things like tool kits off the scale cross shopping should be much easier if only there was a law loving anal retentive organization to make rules for everything you regulation number one six eight the year 2013 on market surveillance of two and three-wheeled vehicles in quadricycles mandates given weight include all standard equipment all fluids and ninety percent fuel capacity mmm sexy there are are certain particular brands that actually hold themselves to this standard unfortunately everyone else is still letting their fluids make a hard breakfast so what's a few pounds cheated here and there well when Kawasaki first introduced the KLR they advertised a 337 pound weight Michael are on my scale for seventeen eighty pounds inaccurate obviously all 37 pounds of gas was gone four and a half pounds oil 3 pounds coolant maybe another couple and miscellaneous fluids you didn't have to explain away the entire six pound battery and both tires my account perishables a it's not like their system critical the remainder who's probably down to theoretical weight manufacturers have been known to take the smallest possible mass for every part and say the cylinder had bowled his machine to a few micrometers tolerance than it weighs 63 grams plus or minus a few fractions of a gram it's technically lying to have your excel sheet add up the lower possible mass for every part in the schematic because in theory 10,000 stars might align so a bike actually gets made with 10,000 slightly small parts except it won't and it is lying such egregiously area dye trickery can be outsmarted by any idiot with the mean power to lift their hunk of metal onto a scale a bathroom bully under one tire then the other will add up damn near accurate if slightly underestimated since weight always shifts downhill onto the unweighted wheel a board can level the bike while measuring yielding spot on figures [Music] trust Newton the mass has nowhere else to go you could put an identical scale under each wheel not you'll read the same results if manufacturers misrepresent any fundamental concepts more than mass some ads are all about horsepower other brands say screw horsepower feel the torque it's [ __ ] motorcyclists can't really feel the difference you don't believe me but just look at what's happening in our engine first principles we have a piston putting a force on a crank of some size torque is just force times that moment arm and power is just a force acting over a distance in a certain time the distance being this circumference which takes the inverse of rpm in minutes to go round in other words power is torque over R times two PI R over the inverse of rpm it's simple torque to PI rpm and because the imperial system is a pain in the ass we need to know that once upon a time somebody's pony could move 550 pounds of coal one foot in one second or 33,000 pounds of foot in a minute kill me ridiculous baseless under rival units but I digress pound feet per minute torque in pound-feet revolutions per minute so we can take power divided by 33,000 for however many horsepower two pi over 33,000 as one over 52 52 so horsepower is torque times rpm over 50 to 52 in other words work is only being done by torquing force when it's moving but you know this because I can put a hundred and twenty foot-pounds of torque this rear wheel does that mean my biceps or twice as powerful and exciting as this F 800 no motorcyclists cannot feel torque until it's moving and when torque is moving that is horsepower one is a function of the other if you're feeling 40 horsepower at 3000 rpm you're feeling 70 foot-pounds if you're feeling 70 foot-pounds at 9000 rpm you're feeling 120 horsepower to experience one is to experience the other horsepower can't do anything torque hasn't already done and vice versa so resist the cruiser versus sport bike torque versus horsepower marketing [ __ ] both are playing the exact same game and both are tied to this rpm range and that's what we control with our clutch gearbox and that's what we really want to know unfortunately too many manufacturers quote peak figures with no Rev speed attached at best they'll give one rpm snapshot it's classic misdirection showing your best foot to hide the whole ugly leg and say I make a hundred foot-pounds that sounds great but if it all comes at 2,000 rpm that's like 38 horsepower and will rip my arms off idle but it won't hold me there if I make hundred foot-pounds at ten thousand rpms not necessarily better I mean sure 190 horsepower but it might take a lot of whining and winding on the throttle before I suddenly get to use it what most riders desire is this steady torque across a long rpm range resulting in evenly increasing up to a very high horsepower and that's what feels best to most people the manufacturers rarely published full rpm pictures because they're almost never a perfect picture it's easier to just throw the peak figures in front of our eyes to obscure what the bike really feels like our inevitable conclusion is that salesmen are salesmen so just go ride feel the tyres feel the weight feel the power and torque your own experiences won't deceive you thanks for watching practice once with me catching it and then we'll go really feel the difference little slow hill the difference that's good a little less lob a little more like direct well you can overhand it if you want well that worked
F9 is easily one of the best motorcycle channels out there. I loved his video on the Versys 300.
Surprised he didn't go into all the ways mfgr's bullshit power numbers.
Doesn’t just stop at tyres. Brembo are bad for this as well and a bike that comes with Bremobs on their premium models (like the Street Triple RS for example) will be out performed by the base level bike with an aftermarket Brembo on it.
Not to discount Ryan here, because I love and trust his videos. But he does have a small misstep here for the weight segment on harley. They list both Shipped weight, which is a Dry weight with factory oil in it, and then In Running Order, which means with nearly tank of gas in it.
For example the fat boy shipped is 671lbs, but is 699lbs running order. 28lbs is the 4.5 gallons of gas that a person will fill up with on a 5 gallon tank.(A 1/2gallon is in the tank already for shipping, so that dealers can move the and test the bike during PDI.)
Harley doesn't do dry weight because they don't ship from the factory without fluids.
Indian also does 2 weights, but they do Dry Weight and Wet weight.
Honda lists Curb weight as "(Includes all standard equipment, required fluids and full tank of fuel ready to ride)"
Industry does need to get down to a consistancy here.
I didn't believe people about tyres until I actually bought a new bike. The tyres my MT10 came on (Bridgestone something) were hilarious, it felt like they were made of plastic and would slide around like crazy.
Couldn't wait to burn through them and throw some half decent rubber on there.
I don't get why Pirelli is willing to put their name on subpar tires. Seems one of those penny wise, pound foolish decisions.
There will be riders thinking that Pirelli is crap when the stock tires wear out in half the time. Good way to destroy the brand.
Thought this was just common knowledge. Although my bike says 206kg but I’ve weighed it in at 184kg. That’s a massive difference on the lighter side than what BMW Motorrad say.
That best motorcycle channel going.
Wondering if there's a list of motorcycles that have constant torque & steady HP increase across all RPM range?