Revitalize | 3 Doctors Debate The Best Way To Eat

welcome welcome welcome back to revitalize it is such an honor to be on stage with our next three guests as a former basketball player in basketball fan this is like Jordan bird and magic of doctors the dream team so let's get him up here dr. Franklinton dr. Joel Khan and dr. Mark Hyman we're going to talk food oh I get a hug Frank's my doctor too so we hug he's seen a lot of me we're not going to talk about that yes um so we've got Hyman Lippmann and Cod law firm haha yeah we gonna start a personal injury law firm here are we gonna talk food 1-800 eat clean take on McDonald's um so let's get started Frank I'm gonna get started with you Oh faites I love fats really that's so good you know we've been brainwashed to think fats are bad for us but fats are actually good for us and in fact all the research now most of the research is showing that fats including saturated fats are actually good for us and it's really interesting you know because of flawed research in the 50s we got brainwashed to think fats were bare and even now that I know that fats are good when I'm eating fat and I'm eating a lot of fat I'm thinking my arteries are clogging up which is not so big that but I'm saying I know it's not true but it's such a powerful myth we have that fat so bad that fats clog our arteries and fats make us fat vets don't make us fat vest don't make us don't clog arteries and the important thing is these good fats and they're bad fats man-made fats are bad fats but the natural fats are coconut oil avocados even I mean a butter from grass-fed meat and I'm sorry to say you know what the vegans even fat from grass-fed steak lamb fat that's good he's a piece of good fats so you know I'm a huge fat fan and I know you know with my patients and with myself when I switched over to eating more fat and I got over this this fear of eating fats I feel so much better and you know the interesting thing with fats is where what happened when we we took our fats in people's diets they started eating more carbs and that's probably part of why we have these obesity these obesity heart disease and diabetes epidemics of fats are good a fan of fats too yeah you know I think it's all about dye quality that's fun the middle of the issue here so vegan I'm actually a paleo vegan you're a hugger you're a but a pig in a pica bacon hi I think we've just defined a new term vegan vegan vegan happy is like a pagan but a bigger so I think I think we get so focused on whether we should be eating paleo or vegan and we miss the fundamental issue which was that most of us agree on most of things we should not be any crap right if you eat crap you feel like crap right so no processed foods no sugar no processed grains no food added hormones all that stuff that isn't real food we shouldn't be right and then the rest of it you know we all agree which meeting tons of plants you know lots of fruits and vegetables lots of nuts and seeds and then where we sort of get into the gray areas are what about animal protein which kinds of animal protein fish are not fish meat or not Mead grass-fed this than that and what about grains and beans so these are also the questions and the real issue is what's right for you and you know in functional medicine we understand that everybody's different genetically different so saturated fat for example there are some people eat saturated fat that creates obesity inflammation other people it doesn't and we understand there's genetic heterogeneity in populations so that everybody actually is very different so finding what's right for you is key and if you are somebody with an autoimmune disease and you're eating tons of grains it might really activate your gut flora to overgrow certain bacteria to create inflammation alter your microbiome and lead to you know chronic illness whereas if you're otherwise healthy you know and you're running on ultra marathons you're eating tons of grains amazing you feel you got a great microbiome which you know I think some people's ideas do right well we can or we have those kits here that you buy okay III yes I yes sir micro yeah they used to call me doctor see every poop at Canyon Ranch what do you think about fast roll well I have extended the olive leaf to my paleo friends and one of my writings and mind body green what a vegan cardiologist finds wonderful about the Paleo diet because when you go through a book like Loren Cordain sort of the father.the paleo movement you can find so much to agree on and I think that is the bridge and the commonality I still as a practicing cardiologist that gets inside people's hearts every week about 15,000 times I've been inside people's hearts I do divide a little line here and I mean I have to speak to pioneering science that I do not believe is dead by dr. Dean Ornish dr. Caldwell Esselstyn the Pritikin Center and all that has defined I'm dealing with the deadliest disease in the world every day active and a very vibrant practice and I have both read the literature visited with Dean Ornish visited with dr. Esselstyn the Cleveland Clinic of others and I've seen plaque regrets by limiting fats to less than 10% which is the Okinawan diet okay now and diet the longest lived people in the world have nine percent of their diet from fat so think you described that guy Okinawa diet is a amazing you know there's a whole like all lifestyles it's more than diet because they're active people that live in an island off of Japan but they hold the championship for longevity there's more centenarians on Okinawa than anywhere in the world actually number two is Loma Linda which is an interesting phenomenon a city in California that holds a rank for number two but their diet is 65% sweet potato it's 20% white rice it's very low it's less than 4% animal fat and less than 10% protein it's the 80/10/10 diet the dr. Graham wrote about and Michael Ornstein another you know kind of plant-based superstar in the athletic world talks about a lot so in heart disease reversal I'm very concerned there will protect our brain and our microbiome by adding healthy saturated fats and end up with plaque and plaque because with all due respect we don't have hardly any paleo research on coronary disease in fact we have none and we have over 3000 vegan studies and coronary disease and I'm still driven by evidence-based medicine so long answer short statement heart patients and future heart patients I think still need to be cognizant that the headlines of Time magazine this week that eat butter is in my mind in their responses that slug I was one of that was the headline violations I hear butter is making a comeback today I need to make a point yet because I mean I like arguing so I don't believe you I think the caviar here is insulin resistance and carbohydrate tolerance and I think what we see in the West is this proliferation of metabolic syndrome of insulin resistance and I can speak personally and for my patients always eating as Mediterranean diet for a long time and eating all migraines and scared of the fat and I noticed that my hemoglobin a1c my sugar was going up and up Here I am integrative doctor preaching nutrition thinking I'm eating the healthy diet the you know eating tons of fruit and you know became pre-diabetic so you know and I see that a lot with patients and I think because of insulin resistance that's a caveat I think someone like me and probably 50% of people we seeing or maybe even more have to cut back on their grains and their fruits and even their beans because they turn into sugar so that the issue of insulin resistance is very relevant to what diet is right for you so yes every you know we all have we all need different diets but the the fact that insulin resistance is so common yeah means that probably more people will do well on a paleo type of diet look i love i'm not against a vegan diet i think you need to match what's right for you i think you all would agree that insulin resistance is one of the biggest drivers of heart disease right and and you know as I said yesterday David David Jenkins did a study on a high fat versus a low fat vegan diet and the people on the high fat vegan diet better they lost more weight and their whole lipid profiles changed now people say that's a indeterminate marker of whether or not you get plaque and you can't kind of always call a cholesterol plaque as half the people have heart attacks have normal cholesterol so maybe that's not a proven marker but the point is that if you if you look at the diet it doesn't necessary mad or whether it's vegan or paleo it's the glycemic load of the diet that really is driving a lot of this and then if you have autoimmune disease or other issues then you have to still look at what's right for yet that's 50 so I want to get back to butter you don't like butter you like butter not from gross CrossFit so I think I love better yeah can you explain so grass-fed is better than the run-of-the-mill then it's okay yeah okay yeah you know I I think the jury's out I think I think the jury's out I think we we really don't know in any individual how it impacts them and I think we're going to be able to determine that by a finger stick that's going to go on a DNA chip and the size of the device the size of an iPhone and read out your genetic profile and tell you whether you're going to react well to saturated fats or not whether you're going to be more prone to glycemic load issues or not whether you're going to need this or that nutrient or not and I think that's that's where the future is going right now we're sort of guessing we're trying to look at population study to look at Okinawan there's so many variables you know you could kind of go back and forth and look at the data and say no the you know the Inuit had 90 percent fat and they had no heart disease where the Mediterranean died they did a step prospective study the primary study were they gave people a liter of olive oil a week or you know you know big handful and that's every day 30 grams of nuts and they had a 30% reduction in heart disease in a prospective study compared to the ones who had the lower fat right so you know you kind of to look at what's really going on it's if it data is confusing for the average layperson but I think that the message should be eat a real food diet right eat a diet very low in sugar and refined processed foods and low glycemic tons of phytonutrients and the rest of it might not matter as much so eat real food and don't get so obsessed with studies and see how you feel I mean right this is my issue with wasting a body right yeah just listen to your body I eat what makes you feel good rich roll feels fantastic I mean how I can't argue that he's on the wrong right look at you can't argue with that lots of vegans that I see are you know really healthy feel great are lots of vegans that I see that actually gets sick and they come really after being vegan for ten years and they feel like crap and they you know they look like crap and they feel better when they add a little bit of fat and and animal protein into the diet said it is different for everyone yeah but I think you know while coming out so strongly is this fear we have of saturated fat and butter is not I think you know it's what we do in Western myths and we scare the out of people and you know it's not right it's you know it's such a fear-based system yeah eat this you're gonna get cancer you don't need this it's not so that'll serve the food industry right yeah history likes to create confusion it likes to get focused on particular nutrients instead of the idea of eating real food because then they can't control that right at tea yeah and my answer would be and again we are three food snaps mark has called it a great term a quality rien I mean this room is not America this room is a very you know high-end subset and probably many of the viewers that spend time reading books and studies and read labels I mean we are very unrepresentative of america so the problem is not that we know we're doing it right because there is confusion but the problem is the ninety seven percent that don't know that there's a grass-fed and grain-fed and maybe there's a difference I have to go back to science I am a professor at a university and when I write blogs for my body green they get red and they get emails and if I'm off base and don't have academic sightings I I get called out so I'm aware of a study that grass-fed versus grain fed beef is less inflammatory the grass-fed it was still inflammatory it's less inflammatory you're c-reactive protein goes up we're concerned that inflammation is one of the root causes and functional medicine of a network going out of control and similarly there is so far only data that grain fed beef raises your insulin level we need a good study we in fact we need studies on grass-fed butter grass-fed beef until then we have to do I have a son I am publicly going to say this who is the healthiest kid in the world on a paleo diet and he went through a whole varieties and I recognize the I think it's genetic variability I'm not quite sure but when you go back to sign and sit still suggests minimize the amount of animal-based products you're eating for longevity for survival if you had to rank though for talking you know show a hands used who's a fan of gluten here who's a fan of gluten yeah no you're not I am a fan of good oh really I own ten today I didn't expect that I did okay hey I'm gonna tell you am i real short I think one percent of America is she like disease in six to seven our glue agents change course in six to seven percent are gluten sensitive its leaves ninety-three percent of the people that are hearing whole grains which have been associated with less cardiovascular disease and longer mortality in multiple studies and that's the sites you go to pubmed calm whole grains cardiovascular mortality everybody on their iPhone can verify it really it is a life prolonging food eat whole grains and until we find different data seven percent of America will feel better by eliminating all grains from their diet but it's not reasonable nor does Alessio Fasano the professor at Harvard who's sort of described all about chemistry of gluten deny himself amazing Italian bread we got a gluten oh he's scared of you with me he ate his yeah I wrote it I wrote a blog for him about it I never responded maca want to respond to the city I can't let this one live you know I've been practicing for 30 odd years and I'm not that enamored with science because the science changes all the time you can cherry pick what you want from the science because you can read nina tests horses new book and you can read the china but use a giant you can vary what you want from the sub from the studies and there's no question about it way but what I'm seeing is every day my practice for 30 years when I take people off gluten and they come back and they feel better they have more energy they've lost weight the digestive stuffs got there the autoimmune problems about yeah I have to believe that I don't give a about the science thing I have to believe what I'm seeing every day and I'm seeing literally thousands and thousands of people getting off and they celiac negative I'm not going to wait for science to confirm what I know is true you know it's complicated I mean it is the gluten wheat side case it's not there's nothing up together I saw the gluten we eat is not the gluten we ate absolutely yes the staff of life the bread of our ancestors was not the bread that we're eating now there was a strain of wheat that was developed called dwarf wheat when when you combine plants together genetically you add the genes together genes create proteins the proteins that are in the new wheat are much more inflammatory the glidin proteins that create inflammatory reactions that cause leaky gut to lead to this inflammatory diseases including heart disease and diabetes and cancer and all those diseases are caused by these inflammatory proteins and there's a whole other set of non antibody regulated inflammation that's caused by gluten that not even the can even be measured that affects a whole other subset of people so I think Frank's right I mean in this society the way that we've changed our diet the way I mean the way that the way that we've changed our diet dramatically you heard Robin talking about them take antibiotics and acid blockers and steroids and hormones and anti-inflammatories all which are gut-busting drugs causes a leaky gut which leads to an increased reaction to this protein so you combine the genetic change in the weed with the altered gut microbiome and you have a perfect storm to create a leaky gut that makes many more people sensitive to these these proteins in gluten and wheat so I think that's true and I think the science supports that the question is does everybody need to be off gluten no I I did all my tests what I weed I don't feel bad oh my I will eat wheat but I don't think it's something that should be a staple in our diet I think other whole grains can be a much healthier but I think the gluten in the weed is not great and if you go to Europe they have different week you can go on yeah people often react here but they go across Italy and it doesn't bother me so I think there's a lot there's a lot of nuances to this but the bottom line is I don't think we should all be eating a ton of gluten or gluten based grains I think other grains can be helpful so I'm gonna try to show a hands thing once again I did not expect that sugar ever you're a fan of sugar a lot of sugar who is it well it's a drug it's all oh right yes okay so you all agree on that we are that's true again we like drugs you want to expand on that which bar the truck no this isn't TV talking about what we've all heard lately sugars are cocaine for the brain and there's undoubted Meissen probably in humans it's true but we haven't heard is what's in cheese queso morphine queso morphine is highly addictive cheese is a highly addictive food vegan what's the last food you gave up it's always cheese thank God for diet cheese they should be a sponsor next year because that's very true that's also true in wheat as in gluten has a product that lights up the same brain receptor that narcotics do so food is very addictive dr.neil barnard rotate awesome book on the topic food seduction and others have and we need to recognize it's not solely sugar nobody can be a fan of the you know the Jamie Oliver you know a dumptruck of sugar that kids are eating every day it's insane so dairy that you brought up dairy where you guys stand on dairy who you're talking liquid meat not you I just want make sure it's the same dairy I mean the milk the milk that we eat is not the military aid right so they you hybridize these cows you get two different forms of casein they have different allergenic properties and if you look at what the Maasai are eating are the heirloom cows very different very very different dairy products right and then there's certain populations that are adapted in certain aren't right and I think you know in our society again with gluten and dairy those are the two biggest things in our functional medicine practice that people have problems with its acne well there's digestive issues whether it's inflammatory and allergic issues it creates huge problems I know I get acne and so I don't dare if I'm going on television I cannot I cannot up there I'll get pimples it's really bad you two guys need to see a vegan cardiologist okay I'll take dairy for a minute yes I have a zero plaque around me too buddy so and you should get checked get a coronary calcium score for 50 years old for 100 bucks be zero Jonny to zero and that study would be to take you know equalizing exercise and people walking on hundreds of million people at 100 Beacon people and put imagine your body composition measure their biomarkers and see what what turns up maybe we do that next year yes I won't speak to dairy and a health issue because we have incredibly health people but the three legged stool of a vegan is not just eating it is the environment and we haven't talked about food sustainability and raising a cows and the number one cause of carbon emissions in the world 18% is raising animals for our pleasure solutely we're not talking about actually animal cruelty animal rights animal torture if Paul McCartney says if slaughterhouses had glass windows everybody would be a vegetarian if you haven't seen that YouTube please watch it it's powerful yeah so I mean my plate is a holistic plate its food it's the environment and it's a cruelty and a hems and all those things combined and I do truly worry what's the word gonna be like for our grandkids when there are 80,000 chemicals and we have 30% of the land to raise for grain to feed cows you know we use animals as a middleman animals don't make omega-3 they don't make b12 they eat plants to make all the good things we need I go to directly to the source so I want to bring that up well now that you brought it up and you have all the support I'm gonna give you a sort of a different version go Frank laughing first of all none of us here endorse factory farming it smells terrible we you know 100% against effect we're bombing I don't have a problem with cars grazing on grass fields and looked after properly and getting I'm not a dairy fan I'm really petite like dairy but when I do go by dairy I'll go to the farmer that I know who has raw milk etc etc but this moral argument of vegetarians about this that's good for the environment and good you know that does violence I understand it and I accept it but it's removing yourself you know we what I've taught in Chinese medicine that we as humans are microcosms of the macrocosm of the environment we are part of this environment animals humans people have always ate animals around I see that's moral argument to take yourself out of this picture and you not you know you're not part of the environment you see I have a different viewpoint on that that I think I'm probably doing less violence by just being part of the earth and living like I should be living and not removing myself because I'm superior and not eating that I know that's a bit alternative to this audience rich but but that's the way I feel I see I don't see it as violence I don't see because I'm not endorsing factory farming what I see is violence sometimes if it is a vegan coming to me and feels terrible and won't eat some meat they doing violence to themselves they're also violent hymns and violence yourself so I totally get this the not wanting to harm another animal or human being but I you know if you if you're coming from a different place and my view of of the earth and how we treat animals and even how we eat them you see I don't see that as as less spiritual or less whatsoever this model then then a vegetarian sorry I had to say there it's good so I'm gonna do another I know the same people are clap for jaws I'll do another what I'm sustainability I mean you have to think about the ecology yes it's all connected everything is connected thank Michael Marcus you put him in the middle that is good very much the soil exists is the microbiome of your gut thank you we are totally connected in fact the fact that we have global warming climate change creates increased carbon dioxide which causes the corn to have increased starch because the plants consume carbon dioxide and so we get more sugar in our diet because we have global warming it's all connected mmm well I'm gonna go back to the show of hands game again what would you guys think about coffee it's the greatest source of any coffee the winner the drug it's a drug they don't have you know it is it is sadly no it's good Coffee is the number one source antioxidants in America cuz the one point three servings of fruits and vegetables a day the average American eats so we should be able to soon say it's the second source of antioxidants if everybody grabs a vegetable you know momentum but there it's a good thing very well but Rose it's a very individual two because people are sensitive to caffeine nutrition I have coffee I get jittery I've seen it yes so I think a lot of people like that and I've seen a lot of people and I take them off coffee even their coffee in the morning they sleep better so it's very individual how you met Erica for those gems those jeans are a slow metabolizer the caffeine is 40 percent better but coffees to drive this technology I'm not saying you can't do drugs folks but copies the drug that's right so what's you guys have been doing this for so long what what still we know being embedded in the health and wellness world what drives you guys nuts I'll jump right in hi my pet peeve is hospitals I hope there are many high administrators watching dr. Heinz gonna totally change the Cleveland Clinic and I hope the first thing he does get the McDonald's out of the lobby and the Wendy's out of my hospital right there is Wang up on the toilet lease I know there is no doubt yes they do in the Holland center that cardiovascular center number one and you as for the so there is no doubt we make patients sick in hospitals we make guests the hospital sick by just being there and it is embarrassing and it has to stop and there are signs of changes it's all dollars and dollars in ignorance so in my calf conference when my cardiology fellows that I'm training are there they eat Egg McMuffins for breakfast which has scientifically been shown to injure your arteries for six hours and drop blood flow by 30% Robert Vogel University of Maryland so we feed fellows food that harms them it has to stop I blocked on that because I'm sort of peeved off about that if we can train doctors in the hospital that food is medicine it may leak out into the community ultimately I think what about you mark I am infuriated at the amount of money in politics and how that drives the decisions that get made in Washington to control our food policy and our health and our completely odds with the interests of the American citizens yep but do you Frank I know we've got another half an hour big time I think what this is me off as a clinician because I'm seeing this every day is someone will come in after seeing their doctors with some chronic problem and they come in and all we do is you change their diet maybe get him some supplements and they get better and they go to their doctor and the doctor doesn't even listen from from being on let's say being told they need this drug X Y & Z drugs which are toxic and the patient goes back and they say I don't stop the drugs are much better the doctors don't they're not even interested don't want to ask why yeah that how do you better that just I just can't get over that there's no interest of a doctor to see why their patient got better you know because you know all they've been taught are drugs and surgery but here's someone who goes and changes their lifestyle and they're not interested so I think that confuse me with the facts my mind's made up and yeah yeah basically yeah yeah and so what do you guys we disagree on some things but what do you you agree on we we uh nicely let all right group hug will do a group hug often what's would you would you agree so what do you agree on more vegetables gluten yeah we sort of you don't agree I need a marks outside just take the sirloin off the salad and we'd have a wonderful dinner guts but lots of red wine I'm gonna be a great day well that's another really that's been saying for the general public the distinctions here are honestly pretty small right we can talk about in my view the world of a cardiovascular patient and what they may need to do different than an obese patient what is the one so for people watching they want to start making a change today what can they what can they do your estimation what do you guys I got a three part quickie yet cuz I steal things from Kathy Freston stop drinking milk go to the 16 varieties and non milky to red apple organic everyday eat a bean burger stop eating hamburgers those three stuffs would change people's lives and change the world it's a nice start yeah don't eat anything with a label right you know sugars a drug use it like that occasionally rarely and for fun sugar sugar for fun yeah and get rid of all processed fats right yeah it is close to nature as possible for the most part that's what we've done to food that's become a problem even the gluten the dairy the meat I don't have a problem with a lot of these food is what we've actually done to the foods that's become a problem hmm so it's the eat food that God made not that man me okay awesome thank you so much oh we get a good pot we get it look at a good bug

Channel: mindbodygreen

Views: 221,213

Keywords: Veganism (Diet), Paleolithic Diet, Gluten (Chemical Classification), Sugar (Ingredient), Food, frank lipman, mark hyman, joel kahn, jason wachob, mindbodygreen, revitalize

Id: nadkmy4nE_c

Length: 29min 50sec (1790 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 12 2015