2011: The Madoff family speaks to 60 Minutes

60 minutes rewind madoff it is a name that will live in infamy  it's been nearly three years since bernard madoff   confessed to running a 65 billion dollar ponzi  scheme the largest financial fraud in history   thousands of trusting clients who felt safe  investing with a financial genius were swindled   he hadn't invested a penny while madoff is serving  150 years in prison his family has had to deal   with the consequences of his crimes his wife ruth  divested of most of her great wealth and derided   by a suspicious world their son mark dead driven  to suicide by shame and accusations of guilt   their other son andrew isolated trying to live  with a disgrace are they innocent or were they   willing partners for the first time since bernie  madoff's arrest his son andrew and wife ruth speak   out about crime punishment and the shame of being  a madoff it's a tough name to live with it sure is   ruth made off you feel the shame of course i feel  the shame i could barely walk down the street   without worrying about people recognizing me and  andrew madoff from the very beginning of this   whole episode i've had absolutely nothing to hide  and i've been eager i would say almost desperate   to speak out publicly and tell people that i'm  absolutely not involved andrew and ruth madoff   speak out in the book truth and consequences a  more or less tell-all arranged by andrew's fiance   catherine hooper an attempt to separate the family  from the father's crimes is it dismaying for you   that no matter what you say people aren't going to  believe you i think in many ways it is dismaying   but public opinion has to be something that  doesn't matter to us what matters to us is the   truth it's really hard for people to believe  that you didn't know that you must have known   i i can't explain it i mean i trusted him why  would it ever occur to me that it wasn't legal the   business was his reputation was almost legendary  why would i ever think that there was something   sinister going on it was 1954 when ruth alburn met  bernie madoff in queens new york i just saw him   and i was sort of swept away i think she married  him at age 18. they had two sons mark then andrew   bernie was building up his money management  business a typical middle class family living   on long island we were both solid parents and  valued our family and so proud of our boys it   was a dream really my father was certainly present  as a dad did he emphasize moral values at all i   wouldn't say that we sort of explicitly discussed  values but we certainly lived what i felt was   a moral life where there was a clear  sense of right and wrong exactly when   bernie madoff went wrong is unclear but as his  reputation for delivering steady profits grew   the madoffs began living the good life a penthouse  in manhattan homes in palm beach in the south of   france and yachts in both places the family became  celebrated for philanthropy and madoff became a   wall street big shot he was a big figure in  the industry he was the chairman of nasdaq   he was constantly being honored as man of the  year of this organization and that and that   that had an effect on me both sons went to work as  traitors for their father's firm in the late 80s   a time authorities believe madoff's ponzi  scheme was well underway why would your father   want to taint his sons by bringing into a  situation that could well spell disaster   you know that's uh that's a great question and  that's something that uh that i really agonize   over as a son um you know what my father did was  uh so horrible and it's hard for me to hard for   me to understand that and i'm not any closer to  understanding it now than i was three years ago   bernardo made off securities  employed over a hundred people   but it seemed like a family business his  brother peter and several cousins worked there   mark and andrew worked on the 19th floor of new  york's lipstick building where they legitimately   traded securities for the firm and for outside  clients the investment advisory business   the ponzi scheme was housed two floors below  where their father never made any trades at all   he was simply creating phony paper statements that  showed steady profits for his clients his victims   access to the 17th floor was highly restricted you  must have been curious about why the 17th floor   was such a secret place when you or mark asked  him about his end of the business what did he   say it was always a very similar responses you  guys have your business to worry about and let   me worry about my business and the conversation  would end there but people say look there's no way   these kids could not have at the very least  suspected something was going on well keep in mind   these were completely separate businesses we were  executing hundreds of thousands of transactions a   day and that kept all of us incredibly busy and it  just didn't occur to me that he could be involved   in any kind of criminal activity andrew says his  father would often walk his clients through the   19th floor to show actual trades being made you  feel that the legitimacy of the trading business   offered protection to what your father was doing  absolutely absolutely that he was using you and   your brother absolutely it was one of the hardest  things to come to grips with in trying to get   my head around this was that feeling that i had  been used uh almost as a as a human shield by him it's unforgivable no father should do that to  their sons the basic concept of wall street he   says he thought his father was a financial genius  there were suspicions about madoff's remarkably   consistent returns but the sec repeatedly cleared  him of any wrongdoing what troubled andrew was   his father's refusal to discuss any plans for  a succession his plan was that he had no plan   and he would say that when he dies his end of  the business dies and again it was always the   the same response that's the way it is and it's  not going to change he ruled with an iron fist but   kept everyone happy with money steady returns for  investors and for family an endless stream of cash   andrew and mark were paid multi-million dollar  salaries and the boys went to their father for   even more for houses business ventures  and divorce settlements catherine hooper   says the madoff benign dictatorship took some  getting used to it was an adjustment getting   to understand that the boundaries in andrew's  family were probably going to be different than   what i was used to did you feel that papa madoff  was the boss there's no question that he was he   could be a bully without question did you ever  suspect along the way either strange behavior or   somebody who was bustling up a secret or anything  i never did i never did it didn't seem that way   there was nothing that would make me suspect  anything sometimes i look back and i think   as the years went on he started to get  more and more short-tempered and maybe   he just was having trouble obviously he had  been in the fall of 2008 the world economy   began to implode and markets were in free fall big  investors wanted out redemption after redemption   strained madoff's scheme to its limits on december  10 2008 with only a few hundred million left of   the billions invested with him madoff realized  the game was over he told his wife to transfer   10 million dollars from her brokerage account  of the firm into a personal checking account did   you not wonder what on earth is happening here 10  million dollars a lot of money it wasn't atypical   for him to put money in an account and take  it out i didn't think anything of it actually   that same morning bernard madoff called a  family meeting in his office and he started to   try and speak to us and he couldn't he sort of  fell apart started to cry a little bit and it was   shocking to see that i mean this was not a man  who was emotional in that way at all he said that   maybe it would be easier if we talked elsewhere  and he suggested maybe we should go up to his   apartment he called from the office and said  i'm coming home with the boys i have something   to talk about came in we went into a room four  of us and he said i have a confession to make   i've been running a ponzi scheme  he said 50 billion dollars he said everything i've been doing is all a big lie he  said he said the business is a is a ponzi scheme   and uh it firm is completely insolvent and i'm  broke and then he just started sobbing and i   was uh i was shocked i it was i felt like my head  exploded i mean i i don't think if he had told me   he was an alien i could have been more surprised  uh he said that uh a firm had liabilities of   50 billion dollars it never occurred to me that  his business had anything like that kind of   anything like that under management it was it was  shocking your mother what was her reaction she   looked she looked shocked she asked  what's a ponzi scheme it was her first   question she didn't even understand that i  think it was me who answered and said that   it means that it's all fake that dad's you know is  he's not been doing what he says he's been doing   and he followed that up and said  yes i've been lying to all of you   all of these years i've been lying to  everybody i've been lying to myself he said   brother my brother was trembling with rage he  was absolutely furious mark was the first one   to stand up and said you know i'm out of here and  he stormed out of the room and i uh i immediately   followed him and walked out you know there's a  lot of people out there who are saying or will   be saying as they watch this this is all a  charade this was something that the madoff's   set up to get himself off the hook this i wish it  were i wish it were i wish none of this was real   you know i knew absolutely nothing about this uh  before my father shared the information with me   and it was the most shocking and terrible  moment of my life i was as stunned as they   i was kind of paralyzed bernie got up and said  i'm going back to the office was he emotional   in any way i don't remember that either he must  have been apologetic in any way probably yes i   it's sort of a blank now i'm not hedging here i  don't i just simply don't remember every detail   i was in such a state later that day that evening  you both turned up at the office christmas party   i know he phoned me from the office and said we  have to go to the office christmas party so i   got myself together and went over there we  stayed a half an hour and we just went home   and the next morning the fbi was  there to arrest him about seven a.m   andrew and mark madoff had turned their father in  shortly after the arrest ruth madoff called andrew   pleading with him to co-sign his  father's 10 million dollar bail bond   and i said you know forget it there's no way  i mean how could you even ask that question   no i'm not signing that bail bond that's  crazy and i was really uh i was very upset   that she asked because here i had just turned  my father in to the authorities a day before   and now it appeared that i was losing my mother  as well because she was siding with him i just   wanted him to come home i was so afraid afraid  of i mean the whole idea of going to prison   was sort of unthinkable to me i don't think  i ever knew anybody that went to prison for yourself bill was eventually guaranteed by  ruth and madoff's brother peter and bernie was   released all of his assets were frozen but in  a stunning breach of the court order barring   the transfer of property a large and extremely  valuable envelope arrived at andrew madoff's   apartment i tore open the envelope and and  dumped it out and it was absolutely heartbreaking   these were pieces of jewelry that i  recognized things that i had seen my   mother wearing over the over the years and uh  i couldn't understand how she could do this   i mean what were they thinking and uh it wasn't  until um three years later that i had a chance to   ask her what were you thinking when you  sent me that jewelry i don't understand   and she told me that she and my father plan to  kill themselves and they put together that package   beforehand and sent it out did  they try to kill themselves   uh yes they did i don't know who whose idea it was  but we decided to kill ourselves because it was   it was so horrendous what was happening  we had terrible phone calls hate mail   just beyond anything and i said i  can't i just can't go on anymore   that's when i packed up some things to send  to my sons and my grandchildren i had some   lovely antique things and things that i thought  they might want i mailed them it was christmas   eve that added to the whole depression we took  pills and woke up the next day what did you take   i think ambien how many i don't even remember i  had i i took what we had did you leave notes no it was very impulsive and i'm glad  we woke up but you must have talked   this is a rather hard decision to  make it wasn't hard at the time   it was impulsive and i just wanted  out the story will continue after this the sheer scale of bernard madoff's  ponzi scheme shocked the world   thousands of individuals charities and funds that  on paper were worth a total of 65 billion dollars   were wiped out what's more some of his closest  friends and family who had trusted him with   their life savings faced ruin 30 seconds dave  with madoff under house arrest the world staked   out his penthouse on 64th street obsessed  by what might be happening behind the drawn   shades there were lawyers coming from meetings  at the apartment we watched a lot of television   and i cooked was there a remorse was there yes  there was gilmores or was it sort of self-pity   i think in a way he was relieved at the  beginning that he was finished but you   must have asked yourself a thousand times  why you you could have been a perfectly   comfortable even wealthy family without question  without this i don't understand it i don't it's hard for me to say this but i don't think  the money was the part of it i think he got stuck   that's what he said and he  didn't have the courage to   face face things when they might have been able to  be faced on a much smaller scale madoff repeatedly   told authorities that he had acted alone did  your wife have anything to do with this sir   that his family knew nothing but who would  believe bernie madoff i remember at some point   we were having breakfast and i said to andrew  you know people will think that you were involved   and i think it had dawned on him but it really  hadn't sunk in and as i said those words he looked   at me and said do you really think but that won't  last i mean it'll become clear very quickly that   we weren't involved did you have any suspicion  at all that your mother might have been involved   complicit in some no absolutely not i never for  a moment felt that my mother was involved in my   father's crimes or was aware of it at all the rest  of the world was skeptical while countless stories   predicted the imminent arrest of mark andrew and  their uncle peter do you have anything to say to   the investors ruth madoff seemed to get the worst  of it it was said she had an office of the firm   that she had been the bookkeeper i was the  bookkeeper i was the receptionist i worked for   bernie in 1961 when i graduated from college and i  left in 1963 when mark was born and then andy and   i was a stay-at-home mom all those years and later  on when the boys started to work there we lived   within walking distance and i had an office there  where i took care of decorating things and house   things and boat bills and managing those things  but i was never the bookkeeper after 1963.   probably a majority of people can't believe that  you can live with someone for 50 years and not   know it's hard for me to believe too had you known  would you have turned him in i'm glad i didn't   i would have been tough but i i would have laughed   whether i turned him in or not i don't know i'd  like to think i would have but i i i couldn't say i'm being completely honest with you i have to  say she was vilified and shunned harassed on the   subway the press hounded her with headline after  headline her fiercest critics were her own sons   from the time of your father's  confession i gather you had a certain   degree of estrangement from your mother how come  well she and i uh barely spoke for two years i struggled tremendously trying to understand  her decision to stay by my father's side   i felt so angry with him so i didn't  understand her choice and i struggled   with it as did mark i never thought of  leaving i don't know why i didn't i just   knew this man for so long whom i loved for so many  years i didn't know what else to do but stay there   three months after his confession madoff pled  guilty he was later sentenced to 150 years   ruth madoff agreed to forfeit 80 million  dollars and all her worldly goods all the homes   boats cars furniture even made off slippers were  auctioned or sold you were allowed to keep two   and a half million to a lot of people that's  a lot of money it is certainly enough for me   i've used a lot for legal fees there is a  public perception i'm sure you've heard it that   there's got to be a stash  somewhere you know i've heard it   i've heard it that bernie madoff  hid it somewhere and that you know my understanding of a ponzi scheme is that  when it's over there's nothing left and i   certainly don't know the stash anywhere though  eight employees have been accused of helping with   the scheme no family members have been charged but  the bankruptcy trustee irving picard and his lead   counsel david sheehan are demanding that all the  madoffs cough up virtually every penny they have   claiming they quote knew or should have known  about bernie's crimes would you agree with mr   sheer the lawyer for the trustee when sheen says  you should be ashamed that you should give every   penny back well obviously i disagree with uh many  of the assertions in the lawsuit that the trustee   has filed against me and i'm hopeful that in time  we'll be able to reach a settlement and i'll be   able to put this behind me picard says the sun's  trading operation received millions from bernie's   ponzi scheme he's suing andrew made off a loan for  60 million dollars virtually every penny he earned   borrowed or was given to him by his father over  a 10-year period let me ask a really intrusive   question how much are you worth as we speak well  i was fortunate over the years uh running the   business that mark and i ran uh that generated  many millions of dollars in profits and enabled   my brother and i both to live a comfortable  lifestyle you haven't answered the question   i made in in good years uh several million dollars  you know my my life at this point is an open is   an open book the details of my financial past  have been laid bare completely in the lawsuit   against me i haven't enjoyed it but that's the  reality that i live in do you fear ending up broke   i think that it's a very real possibility but i am  prepared to start over again and build myself back   up have you talked to your dad i have  no comment i'm sorry i can't help you   but for andrew's brother mark the weight of the  lawsuits attacks from the media and the shame   became unbearable he was absolutely obsessed with  the news coverage he would wake up every morning   immediately comb through the regular newspapers  and that would be followed up by reading   blog posts and comments and i would say look you  got to shut off your computer you got to stop   subjecting yourself to this because this is not  helpful for you and it's not helpful for me and   if you keep doing this it's just going to  lead to misery and it did on december 11   2010 the second anniversary of his father's  arrest mark madoff hung himself while his   two-year-old son slept in the next room he  said in his last email no one wants to hear   the truth as soon as we saw the caller id  at that early hour on a saturday morning   we both knew what had happened how did  you react when you when you heard that it was awful uh i wish i could say i was  shocked but i wasn't he had tried to kill   himself a little more than a year before and  uh that was was absolutely devastating and um had tried to talk to him to understand what he  was going through it was very painful for me   and very difficult for me but i was making  it through and to see him struggling uh   and and not making it was uh was terrible we  were we were very close he was my best friend   and uh i wanted to help him night before he killed  himself there was an awful article in the wall   street journal i mean i sort of i understood  i was going through those agonies of shame and it was terrible to feel  that we were always so proud   of who we were and bernie's  success and the industry it was so difficult she blames herself for mark's suicide   he'd wanted her to cut off all contact with her  husband i just wish until my dying day that i had   done what he wanted i don't know if it  would have made a difference or not but   if i could change things at least if i had tried i  would have felt a little better i don't know if it   would have mattered it's the most awful thing  that can happen to anybody suicide of a child after her son's death ruth madoff told her husband  she was finished with him no visits no phone calls   that decision led to a reconciliation of sorts  with andrew that's partly why i'm sitting right   here he and catherine wanted to write this book  i thought it would be good if i was a part of it   and i agreed because i wanted to reconcile  neither ruth nor andrew will benefit from   sales of the book catherine hooper will you live  just over there you miss the apartment not really   she lives a simpler life now in a  three-room apartment in south florida   but she remains ruth madoff lawful wife of  the greatest financial criminal in history   why haven't you filed for a divorce from  this man i don't know it doesn't matter   to me he's going to die in prison i certainly  don't want to find another man these days   he'll probably see this interview are you  concerned about it i was thinking about that   no i'm not concerned he should hear it   believe her or not the thousands of victims may  have little sympathy for andrew and ruth but it   can't be denied that they too are victims  of bernie madoff that's mark and andrew   and happier times they lost a son and  brother and will forever carry the shame   of the madoff name what he did to me to my  brother and to my family is unforgivable   what he did to thousands of other  people destroyed their lives   um i'll never understand it and i'll never forgive  him for it and uh i'll never speak to him again

Channel: 60 Minutes

Views: 1,387,293

Keywords: 60 Minutes, CBS News, Bernie Madoff, ponzi

Id: 4bQvlQDMXd0

Length: 29min 54sec (1794 seconds)

Published: Thu Nov 04 2021