1231 - Polygamy What Love Is This - 7 Aug 2019

do we have a mother in heaven is there none or one or are there several mothers in heaven I'll talk about that next on polygamy what love is this [Music] [Music] several years ago the LDS Church began posting doctrinal essays on their lds.org website and these essays were designed to expose information that had previously been hidden or denied by the church and it served to protect the religion actually from charges that they hide information from perspective as well as current members and after posting three essays on Joseph Smith's polygamy yeah I remember avvocato people did and the early morning polygamy of corman polygamy many members were shocked and actually some of them left the church you know because these essays were admitting what church leaders had previously denied Christians had been revealing facts about Joseph Smith's polygamy which officially the LDS Church denied and they were not only admitting it that it was true after all but they were embracing and justifying what he did one of their essays is about their strange belief of a mother in heaven now that idea of course fits in quite nicely with the LDS beliefs and as today's polygamists recently there have been more and more articles posted on the web affirming their belief in heavenly mother one article that encouraged developing a closer relationship with heavenly mother was taken down not long afterwards after it was posted one person commented that of course they take it down because that article was was encouraging a closer relationship with mother in heaven then they encouraged the Jesus Christ which I thought was interesting Amanda many people are wondering if this is paving the way for another shocking change that LDS president Nelson has promised will it be a change on their stand on polygamy or preparing to announcing that they're giving women the priesthood or whatever it might be now president Nelson is a polygamist new orleans-style he's sealed to two women and he believes he'll have both wives in the Mormon celestial kingdom of course it's a myth but that's what he believes in that sense he is a polygamist so we decided to talk about their Heavenly Mother doctrine an idea that the Bible condemns and we'll begin with the first of the ten commandments it's very clear there are no other gods but one yeah you find this in Exodus chapter 20 verse 3 thou shalt not thou thou shalt have no other gods before me in the Hebrew it literally means I like this let there not be to thee thou shalt have no other gods beyond me or in addition to me or by the sight of me by the sight of me now they believe mother in heaven is beside God I'm sitting beside him and equal value as he is so there you have it there's there now shall not the command first commandment thou shalt not have any other God besides God now Jesus in and the New Testament both say and it teaches that marriage is for this life only using the LDS SA we want to share biblical teachings and and our own comments and some interesting comments from others on the topic so our first quote is from Mormon think calm unlike some of the other essays by the church this a doesn't share anything new to the average LDS member not only is this essay short it is relevant to know the complete lack of historical support for the concept of a heavenly mother even being doctrine additionally the essay completely neglects to mention anything about how there must be multiple mothers in heaven because of the statements made by church leaders that our Heavenly Father has multiple wives by saying that the LDS Church believes all human beings are spirit children born of a heavenly father and a heavenly mother now this all by itself separates them from Christianity and the teachings of Jesus Christ you taught that there no marriages in heaven so the essay goes on to say this this understanding is rooted in scriptural and prophetic teachings about the nature of God our relationship to deity and the godly potential of men and women the doctrine of a heavenly mother is a cherished and distinctive belief among latter-day saints now it is distinctive among latter-day saints there is no Christian scripture that a heavenly mother is by the father's side or that man and women can become gods and goddesses but there are dozens of warnings where God forbade his people to engage in false worship of false gods including female deities the essay says this while there is no record of a formal revelation to Joseph Smith on this doctrine some early latter-day Saint women recalled that he personally taught them about a mother in heaven now not read some of those comments from them but they had the footnote at that point from that statement that son women recall Joseph Smith had taught the doctrine but their footnote only references one woman and that was made after Joseph Smith's death in 1844 but that doesn't constitute an official revelation Mormon thing coms comments about this is good church essays generally conjures up the image of a revelation recorded by a scribe or some draft of the Doctrine and Covenants or something more substantial rather than just a simple poem or hymn the footnote references w w phelps poem come to me the sixth stanza says this come to me here's the mystery that man hath not seen here's our Father in Heaven and mother the Queen here are worlds that have been in the world yet to be here's eternity endless Amen come to me now that's very clearly the mother in heaven yeah and also in a queen well and that comes up in the temple and well you know we're promised to become gods and goddesses kings and queens well we'll talk about the Queen of Heaven a little bit and then there's a liza or snow of course she wrote a poem about heavenly mother it's known as the Mormon hymn o my father and part of it says in the heavens our parents single no the thought makes reason stare truth is reason truth eternal tells me I've a mother there well truth is reason and tells her there's a mother they're not from the Bible but there how does mere poems create doctrine is is human reason sufficient to create eternal doctrine that's actually quite dangerous spiritually dangerous eternally dangerous again we quote from Mormon thing calm and you'd almost think too that he lies our snow would have heard Joe's to say that this this doesn't appear to be a rock-solid foundation in which to build doctrine since Joseph never recorded anything about this doctrine nor was it written about in the Doctrine and Covenants it appears that the mother in heaven belief basically came into existence by future prophets relying on the ideas of regular members as they tried to reconcile the belief that men and women can become gods but how can they be if we only have a single male God the belief in a heavenly mother solves that dilemma if the belief is true that men and women can become gods then it is logical to assume that this process has been going on for some time so God must have had some sort of female companion so they're there they're making that they're coming to these conclusions but beginning with the false beginning right false idea of where he's come from explains the doctrine but still there's no official revelation concerning mother in heaven the Bible however reveals who God is and who God is not instead of revealing a wife of God there are warnings against it the essay says this subsequent church leaders have affirmed the existence of a mother in heaven in 1909 the First Presidency taught that all men and women are in the similitude of the universal father and mother and are literally the sons and daughters of deity Susan Susan is it Susan gate young gates a prominent leader in the church wrote that Joseph Smith's visions and teachings revealed the truth that the divine mother is side by side with the divine father and that goes back to commandment number one no other God besides there's no other God beside him and that includes a mother God church leaders who taught the existence of a heavenly mother do so from their own imaginations there's no official revelations just personal opinions expressions of feelings and human logic which base is based on their own idea that God was once a man with human needs and sexuality but that is a false testimony of God numbers chapter 23 verse 19 says God is not a man that he should lie nor a son of man that he should change his mind God is not a man now that's not the only place in the Bible where it states that God is not a man but what else do we need to know he's not an inn and he ought to know who he is he alone is God and he has no wife and he has no need for a wife the essay states that the Mormon prophets have taught there are heavenly parents who are working together to bring the human family to salvation and that we are all part of God's family which also is not true God is a spiritual father of believers but not of unbelievers Jesus stunned his listeners in John chapter 8 verse 44 when he told them that the devil was their father we have a verse from first John also yeah chapter 3 verse 10 this is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are anyone who does not do right anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God nor is anyone who does not love his brother so some people are not children of God now it does not follow that because God is called our Father in heaven that we have a mother in heaven we have more from the SA Latter day Saints direct their worship to Heavenly Father in the name of Christ and do not pray to heavenly mother in this they follow the pattern said by Jesus Christ who taught his disciples to always pray unto the father in my name President Gordon B Hinckley said the fact that we do not pray to our mother in heaven in no way the littles or denigrates her so there is a according to him jesus said in John 4:24 that God only accepts worship of those who come to him in spirit and in truth now God's terms aren't difficult but they are necessary and truth is necessary now full up following our own ideas or logic our own personal opinion of course is foolishness God's logic is not our logic yeah that's reinforced in Isaiah chapter 55 verses 89 for my thoughts are not your thoughts neither are your my ways declares the Lord as the heavens are higher than the earth so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts and so just logically we cannot come to the conclusion that there's a mother in heaven just because it's logical his ways are higher than ours we do not pray to a mother in heaven because she's not there early Mormons taught that Jesus was married and had secret plural wives now some polygamy groups place themselves on a pedestal by claiming that they are bloodline descendants of Jesus Christ that's like this we honor women when we acknowledge godhood in her eternal prototype as with many other truths of the gospel our present knowledge about a mother in heaven is limited nevertheless we have been given sufficient knowledge to appreciate the sacredness of this doctrine and to comprehend the divine pattern established for us as children of heavenly parents latter-day saints believe that this pattern is reflected in Paul's statement that neither is the man without the woman neither the woman without the man in the Lord men and women cannot be exalted without each other just as we have a father in heaven we have a mother in a little bit we'll talk about that statement of Paul's but our present knowledge of mother in heaven is limited he says and it's simply because there's no mother in heaven there's nothing that teaches about it at all Mormons are certainly free to believe what they want to believe but please don't call speculation truth and the Bible condemns the idea of female deities several years ago Mormon elder Melvin J Ballard said this no matter to what Heights God has attained or may attain he does not stand alone for side-by-side with him in all her glory a glory like unto his stands a companion the mother of his children for as we have a father in heaven so also we have a mother there a glorified exalted and Noble mother that is a startling doctrine I recognize to some folk and yet we ought to be governed by reason and giving consideration - this doctrine which is a revelation from God he says it's revelation but they just said they you know they talk about it like it is but it's not there's no official revelation or doctrine about it that just is not true and God does not progress he's the highest and he's always been the highest commandment number one we are forbidden to have any God beside the one true God and so Belvin Ballard just went against that and what he said heavenly mother breaks the very first commandment there is no female deity beside him these three verses from Isaiah chapter 45 verse 18 I am the Lord and there is no other from 46 nine says I am God and there is no other I am God and there is none like me and verses 21 through 22 and there is no God apart from me a righteous God and a Savior there is none but me turn to me and be saved all you ends of the earth for I am God and there is no other and that's very clear we've talked about this many times on past shows over and over again in the Bible it's it god says there's no other god but him none besides him in front of him behind him besides him or will ever be created besides him the Bible is authoritative jesus said we will be judged by his word now Mormonism will twist and change and they can claim progressive revelation but they do it in error God's Word remains the same and it is our judge they often fall back on the progressive revelation of modern prophets but that idea is also opposed to what God's Word tells us yeah from 2nd Peter 1:3 his divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness now the word everything means nothing is missing right and he says that we have everything we need we don't need for further revelation or modern-day prophets we have everything we need to know already revealed to us in his Bible nothing more is new or is given for that matter now some LDS believe that this wife of God is co-creator and is a member of the Godhead and that she assists beside and rules besides God yet God himself has told us that he created everything there is and he did it all by himself also from Isaiah chapter 44 verses 24 and 25 I am the Lord who has made all things who alone stretched out the heavens who spread out the earth by myself who foils the signs of false prophets and makes fools of diviners who overthrows the learning of the wise and turns it into nonsense so she's not called creator scott god would have said so if but he says he did it all by himself he created everything alone but the bible tells us in several different places that there is no God besides him and we've already said some but we've got one in Deuteronomy chapter 4 verse 35 unto thee it was showed that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God there is none else beside him now what is beside him mean nobody no Co God now the LDS si there's several footnotes but the biblical footnotes are mostly irrelevant to the statements that are footnoted they don't they have nothing to do with it but we talked about this verse earlier first Corinthians 1:11 1st Corinthians 11 11 which is used and we already quoted that from Ballard's statement that the exaltation of the Mormon husband and wife and eternity that that there is necessary for the two of them in order to be exalted and this is the PERT will read the verse yeah first Corinthians 11:11 in the Lord however a woman is not independent a man nor is man independent of woman okay so they use that verse to say they have to be exalted together and therefore there has to be the the marriage couple and all of this other stuff in heaven which is not it's not true that this verse doesn't teach exaltation mother and have an eternal marriage marriage in heaven or the Mormon idea of eternal procreation this verse is merely stating that God does not sitter man more important than woman or vice versa and and there's no secondary interpretation to indicate that we have heavenly parents at verse it was totally taken out of contest and twisted to mean what they want it to mean Mormon apostle Orson Pratt said this if none but God's will be permitted to multiply immortal children it follows that each God must have one or more wives now here he is working on logic gods are higher than ours now Moore's most Mormons and all polygamists believe Father in Heaven is a polygamist so in their myth we would all have different spiritual mothers is that why they don't pray to mother in heaven because they don't know which one to pray to another question that someone asked is how does heavenly mother feel about being ignored or cut off or silence dirt or does she have even have a choice about it is it is she patriarchal II controlled in heaven like the Mormon religion controls females here I did a bit of search search looking for various opinions about this Mormon female deity and we'd like to share a couple of them I think this is taken from Wheaton Tears org I think we should just recognize that we don't really have a single official doctrine rather we have a variety of doctrinal ideas that evolve over time and receive varying levels of official support or condemnation are we mature enough to stop pretending otherwise and another one said absent any revelation because there is none I recommend we say nothing anything anyone says about heavenly mother is supposition or conjecture with God choosing not to reveal anything I think the notion of heavenly mother is wholly man-made Wow and these were from what I understand these are from people in the members of the Mormon Church so even bathe many of them are ignoring the idea of heavenly mother and this very true there there's no information about it but there is enough information in the Bible that we do know that there is no heavenly mother some LDS folks have stated that the ancient Jews and Canaanites worship the ancient goddess ashteroth so it must have been to worship a female deity now there were several comments holding to that conclusion and those folks really have no idea what the Old Testament is about if they believe it's okay to worship ashteroth or that she's a genuine goddess ashteroth was a Canaanite goddess invented by their own imaginations and worshiped by ancient pagans her word the worship of ashteroth is condemned many times over in the Bible and we want to quote one from the Bible Dictionary Canaanite goddess of fertility and consort of BHEL her worship involves sexual excesses intended to stimulate rain and to reproduce the goddess is associated with sacred trees or groves of trees God commanded that the objects erected by ash Asherah 'the pechera worshipers be cut down and burned the deprived worship of Asherah and Bale held a fatal attraction for Israel and many turned to it the Babylonian captivity purged Israel of idolatry after that time the ancient worship of the fertility goddess was no law no longer found in Israel it's interesting asteroth is the fertility goddess and we'll talk about that a minute too now God commanded the Israelites to destroy all the worship places in the land that were used to honor false gods and goddesses and that they did this off and on throughout their history and Deuteronomy chapter 12 3 and 4 break down their altars smash their sacred stones and burn their Asherah poles in the fire cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those places you must not worship the Lord your God in their way that's a good advice and this one from first Kings 14 23 and 24 they also set up for themselves high places sacred stones and Asherah poles on every high hill and under every spreading tree there were even mail shrine prostitutes in the land the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nation's the Lord had driven out before the Israelites so her idea that because they worshiped the ancient people worshiped Asherah it must be okay and because the Israelites worshipped her it must be okay they God cause detestable some LDS speakers have referred to mother in heaven as the queen of heaven we already read one of those quotes and this is what the Bible dictionary says about the Queen of Heaven queen of heaven title of a female deity actively worshipped in Judah prior to its fall to Babylon in 586 BC references in Jeremiah and Ezekiel to the worship of the Queen of Heaven demonstrate how seriously Judah was polluted by pagan fertility religions to fertility religions and if you really want to know about this look in the Bible look in your concordance and read the passages that talks about the Queen of Heaven these ancient female deities are not a good thing they should not be copied by polygamists Mormons or anyone else God is against them and he commanded their religious symbols and icons to be destroyed it's interesting that they were fertility goddesses which we've already read which is precisely what mother in heaven is she's a fertility goddess that's right she's eternally pregnant she's sharing her God husband with multiple wives to give her polygamist God husband millions of spiritual babies to populate numerous planets that the Mormon gods earn strangers eternal sex and fertility it's a pagan concept and as we've already read it's detestable God condemns it and he orders that not to be done and to be destroyed so it's it's very concerning that they are pushing that the mothers have a little concept of mother in heaven and and on top of all that it's not even a Mormon revelation there's one God and he alone is God he is not a man he is not an exalted man who became a god nor does he have human and passions and desires no continuing revelation about God is needed to change God from who he is to whoever the god inventor wants him to be he is God and there is no other he's God and there are none like him and he doesn't have a wife now one article I read he said excuse me by the way one of the articles that I mentioned early was put up and it was taken down within a few days and I and I got some of this information from that article before it was taken down but one article I read in response to some of this is that more and more articles are coming out about the mother in heaven and one guy says we we know that this is a belief that the you know Mormons uniquely have other religions don't really believe in it but they want to take it to the world and to other religions and and convince them that this is true so that that doctrine can permeate that's what I'm wondering what are they get how are they going to do that I think they have a whole section in there and really that's what the whole purpose of the temple and time marriage for time and all eternity what that's all about gods and goddesses like I say and so they that's and it was just strange to me to as I was coming out of the church to think that here resurrected Heavenly Father and a resurrected mother in heaven that had bodies of flesh and bone bones could have spirit children but definitely and I kind of also always thought that maybe the different nations of the world came about from the different mothers the definitely father had the Asians came from an Asian flags came from a black mother God would be married to someone different race Norman isn't and are you thinking of course but that's an answer to the situation of having many wives yeah well thanks for all thanks again we try to be relevant in what we talk about on our program ya know Jeremiah chapter 10 verses 10 and 11 says this quote but the Lord is the true God he is the Living God the eternal king tell them this these gods who did not make the heavens in the earth will perish from the earth and from under the heavens if your god or goddess did not make our creation out of nothing they will be destroyed by the one who did create it all actually no other God exists anywhere and never will ancient worshipers knew that the heavens even the highest heavens could not contain God he is that great yet for all who will place their trust for eternal life in his hands God will live in our hearts what a great and awesome and loving and lovely God we have it's too bad so many people reject him and replace him for a God of their own imaginations we pray that you will believe and receive into your own heart the God of creation the only God who saves thank you for watching [Music]

Channel: Polygamy: What Love Is This?

Views: 949

Keywords: polygamy, mormonism, lds, mormon, mormon fundamentalism, doris hanson

Id: 30MPS2buQvA

Length: 28min 46sec (1726 seconds)

Published: Wed Aug 07 2019