#12 - How to price your Webflow projects

ready let's do it okay so i'm gonna go to this what's up everybody we are back for episode 12 of evan growth podcast we are here to talk all about sales hold up let's set this up yeah get a little music going we're going to talk all about the sales process the questions you need to ask what it takes to get the most money from uh your web design projects how to take your sales process to the next level and really set and manage those expectations with your clients but you know before we get too far into this let's up and grow [Music] okay what's up joe hello rymar we got the intro by the way if you're watching everything was flawless let's keep it that way no mistakes that's right running shows today's gonna be the day it's gonna be a perfect production so uh you were talking just a second ago how this is like the most requested topic so like talk about how we came to this and you know people ask us all the time or people ask you all the time they ask it in the forum all the time they ask it in the facebook group all the time they always want to know how do you price your project projects effectively you know how do you manage that expectation so you want to talk a little bit about what we can expect in the conversation today absolutely people are so curious about this topic because there is no right answer there's no right and wrong there are only strategies so we're going to talk about all the things that we've done in the past this is from experience in the past we've talked about gdpr and security and we had a disclaimer that we were not experts i'm happy to say that we are experts in this topic this is stuff that we do every single day so we're going through and giving you all the questions you need to ask all of the topics you need to consider and hopefully by the end of this you will feel more confident in budgeting and quoting for projects in webflow yeah and we got a packed house today we've got uh some of the crowd the some of the og's in the in the house here let's see hi ezekiel hello mark grace walker's in the house nick jones christian schmidt peter is here again peter blanchford i um i told him at the beginning if we get to 100 concurrent viewers we are we're going to build a webflow merch store joe so i've committed us to that if we get 200 concurrent users we're going to build a small little merch store so um don't go sharing this video by any stretch whatever you do out there just please don't share this video just kidding share the video um yeah kyle in the house grace okay so let's get to it everybody here is interested to know how do we set pricing so joe let's talk about kind of setting a baseline how do you get to a place where you're like um you know this is this is what we do right like people kind of expect a certain level of pricing from you so how do you set that baseline where does that come from let's talk a little bit about getting from tier to tier and we talked a little bit about this in previous episodes so we're going to be kind of recapping here but you know if somebody's building a thousand dollar website how do they get to a two thousand dollar website if they're building a three thousand website how do they get to a six thousand a ten thousand you know how how are they getting to these baselines and where do you kind of establish your your starting point if you're just new to this it's very important to understand that this is about establishing your baseline we're going to be talking about numbers throughout this entire episode you'll hear people in the community talk about all different types of prices in webflow you'll hear your clients and your leads talk about how they found other pricing from other people that doesn't matter this is about establishing your baseline what you want to charge and you should figure out what you want to charge there's no right answer so how do you get there it really depends on what type of work you've done in the past as you do more work as you have a bigger portfolio a bigger agency a bigger history you have more control in making this number when you first start out you do not have the control to make this number you have to start low you have to start really where anybody is going to give you the project for that price but as you start doing more and more you can start establishing your baseline and then raising that number as more people come to you as more people come to you you have a higher demand that means you can charge more money and if you have way too much work and you can't you you can't take all the work that's coming in that's your first sign to say maybe i'm not charging enough you know maybe 50 of the clients that i'm working with right now are willing to pay more money so if you're at max capacity that's your first sign of raising that baseline and throughout your career you need to raise that baseline and raise that baseline so that's that's a really good place to start figuring out where you need to be and then as you become busy as you need to to expand that's when you need to start raising that price yeah and i think that's a good point to maybe just start out with is this idea that we're not all starting from the same place right you may be the first time you're picking up webflow or any web design tool and you're starting to just get to clients and so like joe said you may not be able to ask that super high ticket value as somebody who's been working with the tools with five or six years does that mean you can't get there not not at all but you kind of got to go through your steps and so many people you start hearing somebody say like oh they closed a fifty thousand dollar deal or a twenty thousand dollar deal or you know a hundred thousand dollar deal whatever it is and you could get discouraged because you're like oh maybe i'm only charging a couple thousand dollars for a website um but that's okay you know like everyone again has to start they've got a place where they feel comfortable doing the work right and so a lot of this has to do with what are your needs what are you like what does it take for you to live right if you're living in san francisco it's different than you're living in the middle of iowa you know and so but maybe you could still charge the same money living in iowa and put a lot more money in your pocket so again this baseline and kind of how you want to do there's so much variability in when it comes to pricing and the quality of work and the type of functionality and so we're going to try to go through all of that starting with kind of how do you start asking these questions because what we're going to finish the show with exceeding expectations is something we harp on all the time and we always talk about tying things back to value and so you're going to hear us talk a lot about setting up this opportunity and setting up everything you do with asking the right questions and then throughout the entire process bringing the value back to the answers to those questions because this is the real way that you reinforce the value to your clients in this regard so uh let's jump right into it and actually um before we do that if in the comments you guys uh who are watching here guys and gals um can you talk to us a little bit about what questions you like to ask right feel free to share or maybe questions that you have a hard time asking right things that you're not sure about so as we jump into some questions that we think you should ask every time uh you know we'll we'll jump into the q a after we go through some of this so um joe do you want to take lead on these questions key questions you're really good at this stuff so i do and for and before we jump into the questions i want to i want to say again something you just mentioned about being happy that is very important here so you may see someone charging 50 000 or 100 000 or 5 000 and that's way higher than you would charge it's about you being happy it's not about putting yourself next to other people or other teams what makes you happy yeah the first site that i ever made was 750 i was living in new york it was much less than a minimum wage worker would make based on the hours but i was damn happy making that site and that's all that matters so make sure you're happy that is it's a requirement for any of this type of work now let's get into those keys and this goes also to when you take a project that you don't charge enough money for you start getting drained with the project right so like if you start getting into these bigger more complex projects and you don't learn how to up the amount of money that you're charging by the end of these projects you will be so drained and deflated that you just won't want to work on them and that will reflect in your work and so learning how to price projects and how to grow the value of what you sell is so important for a number of reasons um and and i think that happiness factor and your level of comfort and your ability to just see this thing through all the way to the end you know um for the client and with the client you know like again that can get taxing if you're not charging enough so um let's dive into these questions joe this is where i think you do a really good job right from the beginning of the conversations with the clients the first questions you have to ask are not around pricing the first questions you have to ask are not around scope they are around figuring out what problems that lead has that client has why what's wrong with your current site what problems are you having with your current site why are you moving to webflow or why are you rebuilding your site in webflow understand what that client has as a problem and what they want to do about it because that's why they're going to you and that's why they're paying you so if you figure out what their motive is you can then use your pricing and you can use your skills and your services to go and solve those problems so that's the first thing understanding why they want to give you money because if you understand why they want to give you the money they are much more likely to give you the money so that's that's step one ask those questions be really transparent about it and use that throughout your entire pitch if someone has a problem with the way that their website scales keep talking about how you're going to build a scalable website if they have problems about updating plugins in wordpress keep talking about how webflow doesn't require that and you're going to build a system that won't require any updates for anything that's really important that's a step one and no matter what service you're doing what project you're working on that's the first step yeah yeah i agree we've got a lot of thoughts coming in here from the crowd about what they what they're asking what they should maybe think about do we want to take a second here and and look through some of that um think of it like a home the budget needs to be made explicit yeah so they're talking about budget we will talk about budget um let's see uh anything you see particular in here why you need a new website so penny's kind of talking about the stuff you just mentioned asking the client what the goal is for the website here and what they think the needs are um rohan everybody wants to know about the budget everybody wants to know how to get to the right budget and how to get to some of that so we're going to talk about next we're going to talk about that and the next section is literally we're going to be dedicated entirely to kind of scoping the project and determining that budget and outlining how you present that budget to the client the different ways you can kind of try to interact with a customer to get that budget and so um let's see this is a good one here how do you get the confidence to charge i feel uh high it feels intimidating um and i think this goes back to some of the stuff we've talked about before about setting up that portfolio knowing the value you provide right we know what we bring to the table as fin suite and even before i was within suite i knew what i could do i knew the value i brought to the table and this allows you to set that tier this allows you to be confident and so this is where you're probably not going to be as confident as you could be if it's your first website if your 10th 10th 20 30 40 50 website now you're like oh i know exactly what i can do and so you're a little more confident inside of that and so um any other thoughts there joe yeah confidence comes over time it really does and we're going to talk more about that and really all of these questions are going to be answered throughout the stream yeah yeah and this one right here from ezekiel absolutely there are ways to offer multiple options and we have a whole segment just talking about that that's a big big strategy we use at fin suite so let's go on let's go through these questions let's go through the yeah let's uh did we go through all the questions or no oh okay well there is one question that we did not go over and this one is usually asked it's asked at the right time and it's a hard question to ask you need to work towards asking your lead how much they want to pay it's not easy starting out you're going you may sound really bad doing it it may turn people off but if you build the skill of asking people how much they want to spend that is going to really really help your sales process this is how we do it we're going to talk about the project and usually towards the beginning of the conversation say how much do you want to spend what is your budget for this work and the reason i ask is because i want to be able to put the right resources and time into this project so you're paying what you want and we're delivering what you want that sounds good and that sounds like you are trying to help them and it's true you are so you ask and you explain why you're asking i'm asking you so i can give you the best service for the amount that you want to pay if you want to pay 5 000 i'll figure out how to make it 5 000. if you want to pay 20 000 i'll put a package together for you that's going to be 20 000. so asking that question it's not going to work the first time it's not going to work the 10th time but when it does start to work you're going to be selling and closing deals exactly how much the person wants to pay and you are going to be able to not guess throughout the whole call you know how much they want to pay and you're going to hit that budget yeah and this is important that's a big one it's and it's an important one it's like asking or getting that number from the client learning how to gracefully get that number from whoever the person is that's on the other side of this negotiation table is an art you know you can scare someone off by asking somebody what their budget is or what especially if it's early and you don't have the relationship and you don't present it like joe just said where you're saying hey i'm trying to accommodate you i'm trying to build this package and we do work all the way from this range to this range so it will really help me if i knew where your target was you don't have to get them to commit to an exact number but if you get a range now you can prepare right and you can come up with some ideas which we're going to talk about here in a second about like creating packages we're going to talk about the different um ways you can price your projects and we'll talk about how to present these numbers so um i don't know do we want to jump into the next section now about gathering project scope um have we one share one more one more on the how much do you want to spend okay this is such an important question that i want to share as much as we possibly can about it how much do you want to spend give give them a reason to give you that number and the reason to give you that number like we said is to put the right resources on the project so if you're a solo worker or you're working with a small team you can say should we have our whole team dedicated to your project for the entire length of the project or should we should we have this as one of our projects you know there's a good way to say it and a bad way to say it but you can make those kind of statements like should we put our entire team and our entire effort towards this project and some people may say yeah you know we do we want to spend the 30 000 and do that or they say no 10 000 is it if you're gonna get it done get it done now when we work in a bigger team with finn suite this is even easier because we get to say we have a team of people on that we work with we have a whole team of 35 people we have people that work at this range we have people that work at this range and we have people that work at this range you're going to get a great product no matter what everything is guaranteed but if you tell me the price i can tell you what we can do for you at that price yeah so yeah that's a little bit more context into how you can work that question and that becomes a little bit more it's it's easier for us to do because of what you just described so let's try to put this because most of the people watching this video are not that right they're maybe hoping to get to that maybe they've got a small team they've got three or four people and so you can still set up the structure the value proposition if you will the same way joe just described right like if you act as and this is a great way to just act when you're dealing with clients anyway as a broker that's working on their behalf right when you cross a table right a lot of people think a negotiation thing is where you're head-to-head with somebody but if you cross the table and sit next to that person and you act as they're like sherpa let me guide you through i know you don't understand all this process but a website is not just a website anymore a website requires illustration a website requires design a website a website requires technical optimization our website requires blah blah integrations right and so now you start acting as a coach as counsel to this person who's trying to buy from you and you can now remove that negotiation tactic where it makes it easier for you to say so if i understand what you're working with right if i understand your budget now let's go attack this together and come up with the best plan to get you to your goals right this is why it's important to understand what their goal actually is is the website just a brochure maybe they're not really interested maybe they'd only update it every five years they don't really care you know and you're never gonna get twenty thirty thousand dollars out of them you're never gonna get ten thousand dollars out of them that's you need to know that early right and this goes back to qualifying the prospect and knowing what type of website they are what type of business they are right if you're pitching ten thousand twenty thousand thirty thousand dollar websites to you know local mom and pop shops you're never gonna close those deals right they have different expectations about where your price point should be and so before you even kind of get into any of the weeds that we're going to dive into here about project scope or how to present these different various options for closing you have to really get good at understanding the customer and we did a um what episode was that joe that we dove deep into that like how to really understand and and um how to sell the value of you and webflow i think it was where we were talking specifically about that sales process qualifying your leads right because it doesn't matter if you ask all the right questions if you are talking to the wrong person those questions may not land anyway right and you may have to ask somebody a different question if they're a small marketing agency or a small startup with 20 30 50 employees doing a million dollars a year in sales or two five ten million dollars a year in sales versus you know the local whatever uh dog groomer who needs a new website and maybe has a three to five thousand dollar budget and so all of this stuff you know comes into play and again it's so nuanced um so really we're just trying to give you a little bit of some guardrails here to think through this this content here um but once you've kind of got a feel for who that prospect is and what their goal is what they need the website to do what their timeline is um you know once you have that foundation then the next thing you need to do and this is where questions again come in super strong is understanding the scope of the project because you may pitch a ten thousand dollar website but at the end of the day you might discover it was supposed to be a 20 000 website and if you didn't do the scoping right if you don't like really understand those needs and more nuance you can be closing big websites but still find yourself on the hook or not happy or not satisfied because you still haven't hit all of these check marks so joe let's let's shift gears a little bit here and jump into a little bit of the scoping right because this becomes the second most important part after you've found the right prospect you've got them you know ready they want to work with you how do you accurately get the information from them so that you can put together a quote that's not going to scare them away we need to see a site map it's amazing how many companies will come to you and try to get a price out of you without an official site map get them to make a list of their pages if they can't spend the time to list out all the pages on the site they are not worth your time so make sure that that is clear and make sure that it's they understand that this price is for these pages so that's number one getting that site map together and and really understanding is this a 10-page site is this a page site does this have a huge cms does this have a simple blog gotta understand that next asking for examples of sites that they like this is a big one you may have in your head based on a past based on their current site based on maybe their site map that they're going to have a certain type of site and you're quoting based on that but maybe they have something completely different in their head so you need to line up those visuals we ask send two sites three sites that you want us to use as inspiration for this design if they send over crazy beautiful sites with advanced animations and advanced layouts this could be a problem this could turn a 10 000 budget into a 20 000 budget so asking for those examples is really important so you're not only aligning in text on the page and content and sitemap you're also aligning in the visual look and feel yeah i like the idea of a site map okay yeah right um yeah i mean getting all of this outlined ahead of time you know is again and this is where getting the client to participate in this process can often be very difficult right like joe said if they can't take the time to outline the page structure you know like what kind of problem are you going to have getting content from this person down the road you know um and we're going to talk about that as it comes down to setting timelines and whatnot but like making sure and this is part of your setup process making sure that there's a clear line of communication and expectations for the customer for how you're going to exchange information back and forth and get this stuff is so important you know because this is where projects can also fall apart because you never know when someone's just gonna like disappear or they're gonna expect you to put something together and a lot of times they're like well i hired you to do that right and so like you need to understand when it comes to the project scope who's going to be doing this content right like am i doing design am i doing the copywriting or is client doing copywriting is client doing design or other things you know one of the things that i wanted to make sure we talk about when it comes to pricing and understanding project scope is that you need to break out these different services you need to create line items when you're trying to talk about throwing a 10 20 30 50 000 project to somebody if you don't have line items that explain what this like what gets you to twenty thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars like you're gonna no chance you're gonna close the deal right if you just have some abstract number and i was like i stuck my finger in the wind and it feels like a 20 000 project well not very many people are just going to be like yeah that's good we should do that like this seems like a 20 000 project but if you go through and you're like design xyz illustrations xyz you know uh lottie animation blah blah whatever we need this plugin to integrate with so and so and so again going back to those key questions and refining that back to this level and so that when you're delivering these project outlines you're giving them basically answers to the questions you ask them right you're regurgitating their answers back to them in a way that makes sense now you've just quantified a value to each of those things and it becomes harder to pull that away right when a client says oh i was really thinking about spending ten thousand dollars oh no worries we can get the ten thousand dollars we just probably can't do these interactions that you wanted we probably can't do this integration that you needed and now you start pulling things away from the customer the client and they're like oh no but we really need that we really really want that okay well then at that we're in this range you know in this tier and so again some of that scope stuff um really those sample reference sites and making sure that you're on the same page as what the client wants you know you might think it's a simple little layout and they want this crazy complex design and if you're already committed you know maybe that's not ideal so yeah it's it's tough getting that getting that together is also going to help you coming up with your pricing model and the pricing model is so flexible there are so many options here so let's get into the pricing model and let's say this how much do you want to spend doesn't work they you say how much do you want to spend and they just do not answer the question for whatever reason maybe they really don't know maybe they feel like you're trying to take advantage of them start to put out some feelers are you uh are you a three to f three to five thousand client are you a ten to fifteen thousand client are you a fifteen to thirty thousand client give them some random ranges and have them come up with some general idea that's a really good first step throw the throw some numbers and see what they take back maybe i'm a three to five or maybe three to seven max okay now you have some numbers to work with the way that i love to price is with flat pricing i'm going to talk a little bit about the flat pricing model rymar's going to come in with time and materials continuous and ongoing type work they all work there's no right or wrong answer there's only strategies so let me start with this this flat fee come up with different options that the user can choose from just like if you're buying anything if you're buying something in a store or e-commerce or whatever there are options you don't just walk into a store and they're like this is the only thing you can buy here you can offer a package at this a package at this and a package at this let's say you want to charge let's say you want to make fifteen thousand dollars for a website you can offer an option for ten thousand an option for fifteen thousand and an option for twenty thousand so the ten thousand is your minimum you're not going below that that is you're stripping the animations you're stripping the on you're stripping um the special cms template set up that they don't really need but they could use the 15 000 adds some interactions it adds a few cms updates and then come up with the crazy 30 000 that's going to add craziness and crazy that and craziness and crazy that and maybe you don't expect them to take that high package it's not there to actually sell them it's there to show hey we can do this type of work if you want it we can offer it to you but really i want you to choose the 15. and having that 30 up there is going to make the 15 sound better it's going to make the 10 sound better and it's going to to just give the user a lot of options give that client the option to really make their own decision not just be given a price and that's it it's a flat amount if you give just a single amount you could lose them yup that's nobody wants that and this is um this is a very common tactic in sales called the options close right you're giving people options people like options they don't like too many options so you don't want to give them five or eight choices you know the more choices you create the less likely they are to make a decision um but two three choices is a great way to just kind of create again a range of value for them to understand like okay i can get in and really probably your goal is to like set the one you want them to pick as the middle option right you kind of want even if you know like joe's saying it's a little uh the high end right we've got this crazy kind of like you're going to let me empower me to do what whatever creative goodness i can do that's at the top end in the middle of the road which is what you think they're going to pick is like the thing that makes the most sense and then you strip away some of the goodies and create that basic package where you know bare minimum they still know they're going to get solid work they're going to get everything they need from you they're just not going to get a lot of the bells and whistles or a lot of things that may take you to that next edge um and then you can get into with these flat price projects kind of what joe talks about in other episodes about stacking right so if you close a 10 000 deal deliver 15 or 20 000 worth of value so that the next time you have your baseline people are looking at your sites and they're like oh these are 20 30 000 sites now you can charge you know that tier oh again over deliver and you clap into that uh step into that next tier and so going back to setting up and bumping that baseline you know that makes a lot of sense um there but that's not the only model right like um penny said something here about charging for discovery some people are building more consultanty types approaches right maybe you want to charge hourly maybe you want to charge on a retainer for a while i was doing this right this is another great way to just make a decent income if you want and if you can find the businesses that need this kind of work but don't have the resources in-house right maybe they want to take on web development but they don't want to hire somebody full-time you know that they they need some somebody part-time or somebody that can broker some of these services for them and so you can step in and say hey pay me x thousands of dollars a month or x hundreds of dollars a month or whatever your tier is that you're going to come up with a package and now you become like a part-time employee for this company or you sell them a block of 10 hours a month or charge an hourly rate you know there's all sorts of different ways a lot of times just come into play for maintenance so a lot of times like the initial project might be like some fixed cost thing that then you expand the project or like a lot of copywriters and content people do this because they're going to be creating content on a regular basis so if a company needs blogs if they need articles and these are services you offer or that you want to offer or you have other value-added services like you're going to be doing some technical marketing for them or you're going to be doing some seo services or whatever it is you can build that stuff into packages and you can even build in the web design stuff into those packages so instead of front loading a project for twenty thirty fifty thousand dollars you get a client to pay you two grand a month twenty five hundred bucks a month three grand a month five grand a month whatever it is this becomes more palatable for some of these businesses it creates a little bit of stability on your end and it creates you know like this nice little retainer income that you can then uh benchmark and grow and again there's just different models that work for different people who want to build their businesses in different ways and so we wanted to kind of approach both sides it's like the fixed cost is usually how people see some of the web stuff but a lot of people are looking for creative and design and web help but they don't want to hire somebody full-time for that and so there's places to just find creative ways to extract the value or to close a deal or to take the next step in what it is that you know like you're trying to do as a career so um any any thoughts there joe about any of that before we jump to the next step yeah we have a lot of good questions i know the questions are coming it's a lot i mean we could have another hour after this answering questions these are all great should we take a question break or should we continue and wait till the end let's let's run through these last things i think we've already touched on these okay and then we can just dedicate the last you know whatever 20 30 minutes to just going deep into the question here so let's jump into in estimating timelines you know we don't need to talk too much about this because theoretically the client will give you the timeline um we just wanted to say that you should always allow yourself more room than you think you're going to need to build these projects and to do this work especially as you get into these bigger projects more complicated projects if only to give yourself some time to get the work from the client because just just because you might work fast doesn't mean the client's going to give you that same speed turnaround and so this can you know joe i think you should talk to them about setting the expectations you have a clause at the beginning that basically says hey we're going to hit your deadline as long as you do x y and z because sometimes you need some room to push out that you know deliverable or that that finished date so talk a little bit about how you manage and set those expectations right from the beginning of fin suite we set our timelines and deadlines with the expectation that the client is answering the same day or next day for feedback the same day or next day for next steps for content they're not late on any content deliveries and that's the deadline we give you that usually does not happen clients are usually always late and we have a piece in our contract that says if you are late in giving feedback if you are late in delivering content this this due date becomes invalid completely you don't want this to always happen and you don't want projects to deliver months after they're supposed to so as a safe bet make sure you tell this to the client ahead of time tell them that there could be project delays and there will be if you are late delivering content and then always give yourself the buffer always give yourself i like to do 2x if you think something's going to take you one month figure that it's going to take two months not two months of your continuous work maybe one month of your continuous work like you like you think and then one month of the client being late the client going back and forth it just happens i i like to think that it's just part of this industry yep yeah and so be aware of that and be aware of that in quoting too every time every single time it just there's always going to be delays you know like if anybody's done this for any amount of time you know that getting that content from the client is always like pulling teeth so always build yourself a little bit more time that's really all we wanted to say about estimating timelines you'll get better at this as you go right you'll start understanding you know like joe said it may be a week's worth of your time but you may want four weeks to deliver that week's worth of your time right you may not want to just work full one week straight with a client you have other projects you have other things and so this is how you manage other projects is that you have to kind of allocate your time and block off time to work for various projects and so yeah it may be an a week or two of your time but you may not have two solid weeks to dedicate to that project and so you'll have to space it out over the course of two months and so again this gives time to go back and forth with clients whatever it is and so um let's jump into that last little bit which is going to be kind of reiterating um how to get that money you know just get more options closes you know and this is going to all tie in exceeding expectations tie back to the beginning you know making sure you're hitting all those questions um all the pain points right the reason you ask them at the beginning what problems they have with the website is because at the end you should be theoretically providing them solutions right and so as you start presenting the solutions if you've done a good job from the beginning to this point it just seems like a logical solution to say yes you know you've done a good job of becoming their consultant you've done a good job of like stepping around from in front of them at the negotiating stable just sitting next to them they trust you they think you're guiding them in the right way they obviously like your work this is why they're talking you in the beginning they've seen your portfolio they've seen your existing stuff and so like you've already got a lot of the things now you just got to ask for the clothes you know you got to you got to put this in a way that makes it easy for the client to say yes and you need to ask you can't be afraid to ask a lot of people especially starting out are afraid to ask for those big numbers or remember big numbers for you you may look at a number and say that's so much money for a website it's not it it may feel like a lot for you but you have to ask for that higher amount maybe they're not going to choose it like the options they're not going to they may not choose that highest package but you will find that somebody's going to choose that higher package and then you have your chance to shine you have your chance to build that custom lead flow system in cms you have that chance to go crazy with animations you have that chance to build a sales tool for them you know some crazy thing that someone's going to say yes for give give somebody a reason to say yes for that higher number yeah and hey even if they don't say yes even if they're not going to agree to that higher package consider doing it consider building it anyway because the next person that comes along you're going to say look at this awesome sales tool i built look at this awesome interactions thing i just did this cost this much money maybe you weren't paid that much money for it but that's how much it costs you that's how much that that price is so keep pushing yourself and keep going that higher higher amount and delivering at that higher amount yeah and you may hear some no's right when you start getting into some of this you may you may not close every deal right you're not it's very few people have a 100 win rate when it comes to closing deals you know to be honest if if you're a lot lower than 50 you're probably doing something wrong before you get to that point you know like you should be pretty close to 50 or higher on a lot of these deals if you're getting to the place where you're presenting money right if you're presenting a dollar to somebody a dollar amount um you should be closing those at pretty high percentage because you've done a lot of things right up to that point and it should just make logical sense you know um and so if you're doing a lot less than that if you're sending out 10 proposals and only closing two or three of those i'd be interested to know like what your process is leading up to that because i bet you're skipping some real vital steps to either building or presenting the value or you know whatever it may be there's something else probably that's structurally wrong there and so i don't know um if you have any thoughts there but um before we go into that exceeding expectations and then i want to dive into some of these um yeah i want to decide some of the q a yeah exceeding expectations just because you're making a certain amount of money for a site doesn't mean you have to cut off your services and stop doing great things somebody may choose that lower package they may choose the cheapest package of the middle package but that doesn't mean that you give them your worst work or you give them your lowest level work that should mean this is an opportunity to exceed their expectations make them go crazy make them so happy and then attract bigger and bigger business that's how you can naturally and very organically raise your bar raise the amount of money that that you should be charging yeah and we've talked about this a number of times throughout this show um as we move into the q and a session here that our core strategy at fensui and and this is this is something that's ubiquitous across the people at finn suite the reason it's a core strategy at fin suite as a whole is first of all because it starts at the top so joe kind of sets this expectation but then everybody else on the team also has this idea that we want to go above and beyond right we want to do something either beautiful for the community or for the client or for ourselves or for whatever it is and so having that personal commitment to just delivering your best work every time is really what's important and that means selecting projects that allow you to stay committed to that effort if you start just taking on a bunch of projects here and there because you just want to make a little bit of money you may start increasing your bottom line but that satisfaction rate is going to drop and the quality of each project is going to drop and you'll find yourself just kind of turning into an assembly line of web design you know and we don't really need more of that this industry is already starting to become more and more commoditized and so your goal here if you're trying to get to a higher price point is really to find ways to separate yourself separate yourself from the competition to create unique value propositions and to do things that other people are not which means really paying attention to those details and giving them a reason to say even if your project is a little bit more expensive than the other things i'm considering i'm gonna go with you right like people will spend double right triple sometime like they just will spend way more money to work with somebody they care to work with then another piece of competition because of all the uh intangible things that we've talked about throughout this episode and throughout the other you know series here like it's really is about finding a way to connect with the person that you're selling to before they even come to you right that's what part of the show is that's what part of the marketing is that's what part of like some of the stuff that we do around the fringes giving back to the community it gives us a kind of a competitive advantage when they come to us they just want to work with fin suite right the price is very rarely the thing that we're squibbling over it's just they want to work here and so you should find a way at whatever level you are to do that same kind of value proposition this isn't something that you have to have a 30-person team to accomplish you can accomplish this as an individual right joe did this for years until he got here i was doing this for years selling large individual websites and consulting packages for a long time before i came uh and took this position at at fin suite you know and so like you can do this anyone can kind of do these things and so with that let's jump into the queues here the q and a's um let's see jose arsey was asking a really good question that i wanted to bring up here about outsourcing you know if somebody's outsourcing to them um how do they price so that somebody else can ask above you know so somebody can oversell them or you know and and there's a lot of pitfalls to these kind of conversations by the way if you're kind of at the mercy of that um i don't know what are your thoughts on this joe i don't know we we've never worked in this in this strategy we we don't really work with companies that where they're the middle person um when we have done it though and what we do is we just we treat them like a normal client we treat them like it's you know we are charging our prices i don't care what you're charging the end person this is what we cost if you want to work with us this is how much it costs so that's that's the best advice i can give there don't change your prices just because there's a middle person yeah hey and real quick uh while you're watching we don't do ads or promotions or spammy marketing stuff but if you got any value out of this video while you're watching go ahead and hit that like button if you're not subscribed we'd appreciate the subscription to the channel we do these every week every tuesday at noon uh really just to kind of connect and give back to all y'all so we appreciate any of that um let's see decon is asking on your website we have a standard animation option can you give us an example of standard animations so we break down you know standard animations versus complex animations and some of this other stuff joke and can you give a little bit of context to that sure and i would like to group this question and answer with another question from tanner who says that he noticed that the pricing estimator on the fin suite site has pages and animations and that this doesn't completely align with value based pricing absolutely that is not how we price projects at all that is it there's literally no we don't take any inspiration from that that is only a qualifier that overnight took away all of our crap leads every lead that comes in is like hey i want to do this for free or i want a 300 50 page website those kind of requests went away so this is not how we price projects this is only a way to bring in people that are interested in paying money yeah and it's fun it's it's fun to click through people come to it and they're like oh i was clicking through it and it was fun yeah that's really the only goal of it yeah i think this goes back to one of the ways you can set those expectations early when you come and you start clicking around on that little thing you already know you're not coming to us for a 5 000 website so if you've got a 5 000 budget you're just not reaching out anymore right so this is one of those tools that like joe said we're not really like these are not set numbers people don't click this thing and they're like oh this is what i'm going to pay right this just starts the conversation and helps us screen the people the qualified leads so that we have a better opportunity to make sure that by the time we get to presenting a number we have a high likelihood that we're going to go ahead and close this deal so hopefully that answers those questions and on some of that and also on the the new website we're building a new finnsuite.com and that is not going to have a pricing estimator like that we're going to make it a little bit more realistic to how we actually approach conversations there'll be a pick list or a slider where the person can actually choose their cost so they will slide on the thing themselves they will pick their cost and if it's a cost we don't like we're going to throw an alert and say hey this is too low we don't work with that so we are actually going to make our new site the way that we actually go and pitch for projects yeah great um okay so alvin ng was asking what if the client has no idea what they want do we still ask them to give us the website reference how do we tackle this um man if the client doesn't know what they want that's a great yeah you know sometimes that is a big red flag and you need to walk away from that and sometimes the person just honestly doesn't know what type of visual design they want they're they have some business and they truly truly from the bottom of their hearts don't know what their business website should look like so earlier on in fin suite when i was getting any project that i could possibly get i would go and find those examples for them so they said hey i don't have any idea i would go on an inspiration site and i'd pick out two three four examples that i thought were really good and i explained why i thought those were good and i said give me your feedback on that and based on the feedback uh they would come back and say this one's great this is exactly what i'm looking for and now at that point we have the visual example and we can now move forward yeah yeah and sometimes we gotta be if you're in that position yeah and this is the thing like there's there's stuff that happens once you're a little more scaled out that you can expect and kind of demand that you maybe can't expect or demand at those early stages right a lot of times at the beginning stages you have to be a little bit of a go-getter you have to be a creative resources out a resource outside of the scope of just building the website you might have to go find a little inspiration for them you might have to do a little bit of x y or z that's kind of above and beyond but this is again how you build a name and a reputation for doing these kind of sites and what that does is it gets you into tiers where you can start working with more sophisticated clients and that's really where you want to be right but it's hard to just jump into the deep end of web design because you'll be exposed really quickly if you go and start talking to the sophisticated client and you're not sophisticated and how to deal with them you're immediately disqualify yourself from that conversation and so really it's just about learning how to you know deal and manage with these expectations all the way through um penny is bringing up another point here she works with a lot of clients who don't know what they need so sell an extensive discovery process this is another thing going back to pricing and and ways that people get value right so like maybe you want to charge for a discovery phase this is something again that you're dealing with probably a more sophisticated client not a lot of companies not a lot of small mom and pop shops are gonna pay you 2 500 bucks five grand whatever you want to charge even a thousand bucks to do a discovery phase but i think this can be really important right you may sell this as an add-on surface service to say let me help you figure out what it is that you need client that you don't know let me do some research let me put my team to work and this could be a line item on your budget that you could help you get to that next tier and so all these are creative ways to again understand the needs go back to you know tying your value back to those needs and how you solve those problems yep um let's see milton amaya said something like i feel like my proposals lack i'm not sure what they lack but i would also say that a lot of people spend too much time worried about their proposal right they spend too much time worried about this fancy document it has to be a brochure that's like archival and every page is perfectly designed and now that should matter right like the biggest deals i've closed i've often just been emails back and forth you just couple emailing back and forth you send a little word doc or something with some bullet points some assumptions some basic you got a deal and then you can hash it out with a properly defined statement of work and a contract or whatever but what are your thoughts on that joe as far as like i think people put too much emphasis on like what their proposal looks like or how it works or all that that's too much i agree when we send out a proposal it is the statement of work it's a 12 12 point ariel font pdf document it's not fancy at all we played around with some very visual statements of work they were cool but really we didn't see any difference in people saying yes or no so we it doesn't matter what it looks like it matters the information that you're putting into it it matters how you're answering those problems that the client told you about in the beginning of the conversation you should be listening all the way through and all the way up to the pitch later that week you should be rehashing those initial problems and giving the solutions that's what matters not the visual and we see a lot of people that go with the visual proposal route it's templated yeah you know if you have this beautiful proposal we know that you're not making this custom for every single person this is a template and you add a few different lines inside this to to make it custom and that's it so it is a strategy it can work for some for some companies but i don't think you need it and we do not do that at all well and there are places where some kind of really refined document makes a lot of sense especially if you have to go through channels and these are typically for large projects that have to go through some kind of procurement process where you need different layers down chain to be able to understand the full nuance of your rfp or your response or your proposal where you're not going to be able to physically present some of this stuff or you don't have relationships with the people who need to see these things right so it's like maybe you're dealing with some kind of you know purchasing officer and they got to take that up chain to their you know executives or whatever it may be this is where a little bit more meaty proposal could make some sense but a lot of times people you clutter up the stuff that matters right like people are now worried about reading this book and this thing and experiencing this whatever it is that you've built as opposed to paying attention to all these other things which can be very simplified and depending on who you're working with that could be a huge turn off if you're working with the decision maker who's like you know they're snappy and they just want all the details right up front okay you know like you need to get to the just get to it um some people might want more details whatever again this is understanding your customer your client etc um any other thoughts there joe go to the next one yeah go to the next one do you charge clients accounts or do you send invoices and wait for them to pay you you've talked a lot about your pricing do you want to answer this we do 50 up front 50 on delivery we do not we don't we will start working if the client has not paid us that we are more concerned about hitting your deadline and we are more concerned about working for you than seeing that money in our account immediately now if they haven't paid in like two weeks so they said hey we're gonna send the payment tomorrow and two weeks later uh they have not sent it that's a huge red flag but that usually does not happen usually they say okay we're going to send it our bank takes two days to send it and usually three to five business days it's in your account waiting for those seven days i think is a turn off that means that you're money focused and you are not client focused and work focused so usually we'll say hey with your okay we are going to start work then have the right people sign this contract have the right people process this payment but we're ready to start tomorrow yeah that's a big selling point and people really like that this goes again to to understanding your client because i've been burned and you hear stories all the time about people getting burned so the way to do this is to kind of protect yourself if you're just starting out you never deliver finished assets you know like the work that you can start doing um doesn't necessarily need to be all of the in-depth project right set yourself benchmarks you know to to hit or um i don't know i hate to say that everyone could just go ahead and start working because like not everyone not everyone's going to pay you every time right and so this has to be a decision you make this has to come down to your comfort with the client your financial ability to sustain the hit if they don't pay right like that's really what it comes down to if you know you kind of have to be willing to assume the risk if you're doing that otherwise get the money up front and for sure never transfer the site until you get paid right like build it in your webflow site make sure you control that property until you do get some payment right because the highest likelihood of getting burned is if you turn over the asset before you've received any payment and i hear about that all the time right where somebody is moving in a hurry the client was in a hurry and so there's all this pressure to get it done get it done get it done and you get it done you turn it over in good faith that they're gonna pay and maybe they don't pay and so again this comes down to who are you working with you know what are your processes like and what you know what you know what do you wanna like how do you wanna how do you wanna play the game you know i'll make a comment on that well i'm laughing because that's not how we do it at fin suite the we will transfer the project even before we send the invoice the final invoice we do not care about that payment coming in or the invoice going out or anything sometimes we forget to send the invoice and we send it three weeks after the site launched or there's some there's some changes at the end of the project and we send it after now hold on hold on hold on hold on i'll explain yeah yeah most people just don't have never been burned we've we've well we we don't we don't have the bankroll we have money to grow we are a very very successful company but it was not always like that we've been doing this forever we've had over a hundred webflow builds unique webflow clients over 100 and we have literally not been burned once yeah will that happen to you maybe will it not happen this you could be burned this is i'm not saying that this is how you should go and operate but we have never been burned and maybe it's because we really truly care about the work and people honestly want to pay us at the end we have people saying hey send me the invoice i need to pay for this seriously so this is how we do it and i think clients really do appreciate it and i think anyone in the audience could operate in the same model assuming they set up the expectations the same way and assuming they were working with high credibility clients the whole time right like really you know like again the companies that are coming to us are reputable businesses they pay their bills this is how they get ahead in business right so like again if you're dealing with a company that's reputable if you're dealing with somebody's got like this is different risk you can take if joe schmoe calls you and they don't have a website you know and there's no information to be found about them and you don't know what profile this business is or whatever is going on somebody wants to start a startup and they're going to pay you with exposure and some little money once they start selling their courses and blah blah blah like that's where you start getting into trouble right like that's where you start running into places where you're just you're dealing with people who are not really serious about building a quality website maybe the website is not a core part of their business um maybe they're not an established business and so again i think this really comes down to the type of clients you're working with um and and you may need to set some protections you may want to be completely open um again i think that comes down to the risk you're willing to accept and the types of clients you're working with um so and also know that we don't take on cheap clients if somebody is writing a message and i think that they're a cheap person and they they are trying to lowball them as much as possible they're an instant no see you later goodbye so maybe there is a bit of a vetting process that i don't even know about that is just getting rid of all the people that are trying to lowball yeah yeah um okay let's see uh that's not what i was meant to click on this one how much does it cost for a company not to have a website depends on what business they're in um yeah let's see same as the clients anything let's see what's coming in here how do you price ngos or startups um yeah i think it's kind of the same approach you still have to understand their needs you know you still have to like ask the right questions and do the right scoping process a lot of people think that because they're working with a non-profit you know they got to give some substantially discounted service and for certain things that makes sense to do and other things maybe not right if the nonprofit is trying to achieve a goal of standing out and raising a bunch of donations they may be willing to pay a nice pretty penny for a website to help them do that it doesn't make sense for them to look for a discount bargain basement website to do that effectively um and same thing for startups right if it's a startup and they're pre-funding or whatever it is like listen this is why the no code space exists so i tell them you got two options you either build it yourself or you pay someone like me to build it or you find somebody else that's in your price point right so like again a startup that is serious about doing what they're doing is either going to be doing it themselves or they're going to pay the right people to do it for them right we build websites for startups all the time and they know that they want some of that secret sauce again that's one of the reasons they come to us and so i don't know that your pricing strategy should shift too much based on who you're selling to uh joe any thoughts on that yeah we we don't have any different pricing when people come to us and say hey i'm a startup and i want a low price again that's an instant no we don't get bargain hunters bargain hunters are a big red flag so you're either paying our price or you're out the door yeah i agree um victor crew thinks i'm uh cutting you off joe so [Laughter] i think there's also like delays i'll just shut up for the rest of the show there's like this small delay we deal with also um so that comes into play sometimes so it may seem like we're doing that but uh we don't try uh nothing purposeful here let's see stick to your pricing what do you mean by that i did yeah let's see one of the things that always helped me is sticking your pricing don't drastically reduce because a client didn't like it initially yeah that's a good point too right so if you put a 10 000 project out there and somebody says no don't come back and oh yeah i'll do it for five i'll do it for five you know like and you you know you do better that's a good point and that's why you can use the option method the option method gives you the opportunity to offer the lowest package at your lowest price and then the middle price and then the high price and having that range of services it's already qualifying that that official yes or no if you want the lowest one you could take it anything lower than that we're not touching this project yeah yep um yeah andrea is saying i think here yeah 50 up front i agree andrea i tend to agree with you for most freelancers right like joe's incredibly talented i think he's got a great skill at building relationships and building trust with clients and and i i expect that joe does a few things more naturally because of his previous experience that some freelancer or starting people in this business may not be able to do and so i agree i think getting that money up front as a protection is something that most people should be looking to do does that mean that you could experiment or explore or in certain cases you might need to do something because the clients rush or the timelines rush or whatever um sure i also see that um jay's bringing up a really good point another okay another thing to really consider is as you work with bigger companies it's not the person you're talking to that sends the money we work with some clients that have a ridiculously bad turnaround time for payment but we know it's gonna come we'll finish a project and not be paid for three months because this person forgot this and this person forgot this but they eventually pay so also be aware that the person you're talking to if it's a legit company they may not be paying so there are some instances where you do jump in right away this is actually a really good point once you start dealing with larger operations they may have and it may be stated in the contract where they're going to pay you on a 90 90 days out right they may be paying you on a 90-day float or a 30-day float or whatever it is and so you know and it could just be right like joe said the person who you're sending the invoice to is not the person cutting the check so they got to send it to so and so and that sits in their inbox for a week and then you know that gets processed and then the person's got to cut the check it sits on their desk for a week or two or whatever it is and so like yeah there's lots of reasons again it just comes down to the situation and this is where contracting comes into play a little bit we haven't talked about that at all in this episode um you may need to have a little contract that you want you know this is goes more than just copying and pasting some contract out of you know some templating service you may need to talk to a lawyer about how to structure this stuff so that you can get them to sign this contract and then at least if they don't pay there's a little bit of recourse so there's a little bit more um you know kind of expectation that there's some some there's a verbal agreement right there's a there's a there's a contract to pay so even if they haven't paid or whatever those expectations might be um you know more well accepted let's see uh let's see penny that's a good point yeah pre-deposit you can start with project planning hold yeah this just goes back to again like what do you want to do you know how do you want to how do you want to set it up uh there's a good question do you give the client revision rounds so how do we deal with revisions rounds of revisions updates scope creep things like that yeah i i'm going to give another answer that's that a lot of people are not going to like and probably not follow we don't have any revision rounds we have it's a pure you ask whatever you want we are going to make you happy until the very end of the project sometimes that does hurt us a little bit sometimes it does not and they do exactly as we expect that's why we price our projects with a little bit of padding a little bit of budget that our margin accounts for somebody being a terrible client and it happens you know we we have a one month project and it turns into a three month because the person is changing things at the end and doing this and doing that but that's why we've never had an unhappy client there's never been a person that left us and was like screw finn sweet this this company sucks we always leave them happy and with that type of mentality company wide we're always delivering top sites and people are happy and people are coming back and they're talking about us so that's our strategy but that may not be your strategy so yeah that's what we do yep um let's see tanvi i learned more in the last hour the last few months trying to figure this out by myself that's what we're here for we appreciate those kind of comments feel free to share this with a friend again if you're not subscribed go ahead and subscribe and hit that like button that helps youtube uh you know know that we're doing and providing some value here so um let's go back to this proposal question because grace writes here i spent time designing a great proposal layout because it's important to me but i built and once and reused the exact same format for everyone an easy process yeah i'm not saying that you shouldn't have a nice little something to look at or that you can't build value in that realm right like i think the point i'm trying to make when it comes to proposals is that don't get too lost in creating this elaborate presentation every time you need to like present a project you know because i know early on in my career i did that right i spent so much time thinking about what this proposal looked like and every time i was trying to customize it and tailor it and make it like just oh and i was spending so much time on this thing that as i got through the process i started realizing it wasn't really helping me because i would have those instances where somebody was in a hurry and i just sent an email and i would just type a bunch of bullet points out and kind of like give them the rundown and i had good success with those and so i started seeing like maybe this isn't as important so great so i don't want to say that you know it's not a valuable thing or that you can't create value especially if you start using that to like share a little bit about the company maybe about the process if you want to introduce the team sure all these things are good ideas especially as like you're growing and scaling and experimenting just don't get wrapped up thinking that in order to close a deal or in order to close a big deal you have to have some of these things right you can start doing that and then as you grow maybe it becomes valuable for you to create some kind of asset like this to share and especially if you find yourself repeating the same questions right maybe you want to include a faq section maybe you want to include some other stuff that just makes sense to help people understand your process i think that's a great idea um the caveat was just don't get lost yeah please yeah i so grace to what rymer says it's not about having the design the design is fine you can have a beautiful proposal but really what it comes comes down to is what's inside of it and a lot of times people that have the design pro the designed presentation their primary concern is the design it's not the content inside so as long as the content inside is the leader and that's what you're actually focusing your time and energy on that's what matters because at the end of the day they're going to choose the best pitch the best content they're not going to choose the best designed presentation yeah yeah and mark kind of um carrying on to this is saying that i think the hardest part is being clear what's excluded right so so i think in my mind sometimes those proposals or the contracts are really to outline you know like first of all you the scope of work so you want to start with what it is that you are doing but i i think that having some clear rails in there we talked about this before like i always have a list of assumptions where i did when i was creating proposals i don't really deal with a lot of this now um you know directly with the clients but creating a list of assumptions is a good thing to do right to say hey we're assuming that you're creating the content we're assuming that you're doing x y and z and that can be real clearly stated so that they know so when you come back to any issue it's like no no we agree at the beginning you and your team is doing x y and z and so for sure the proposal um and that statement of work can be a good place to kind of set some of those guard rails we have a good question from anthony mas do you use a lawyer for your contracts great question so we do and we started it like two weeks ago up until two weeks ago it was just a bunch of copy pasted things put together now we are starting to work with companies that it's kind of embarrassing to send that out to so we work with a lawyer we now have our official master services agreement and it feels great uh for the first time i feel confident sending that document out and saying hey this is this is our agreement this is this is what we want this is a this is telling you exactly what we're doing in simple terms no legalese yeah and we feel protected it feel good and it's clear and it's equal and it's it's approved by a lawyer so yes i would recommend going with a lawyer yeah and it's something that you know especially as you're growing you know you may start out and you may go to some template site and you may copy some pieces and as you go you'll edit and update that whatever it's no big deal when you're in the you know a couple thousand dollars five six eight thousand dollar rank ten thousand whatever website once you start getting into that next tier this is where it starts to make sense because you screw somebody's business up that charge you fifty thousand dollars for a website they're probably not just gonna like okay or let you fix it you know like you can get into some real trouble right and so once you get into those bigger companies they have different expectations they have different processes they might have different legal requirements themselves right so they may have some like requirements that they give you right and so you may need a lawyer just to look at some of those things and yeah it's you don't need it all the time but yeah sometimes you will um jay made a good point earlier that i don't think did we address that quick yeah go ahead uh just a quick follow-up anthony came up with a follow-up how much would we budget to have a lawyer look at that that contract what i would recommend doing is to create the contract yourself write out what you would want it to do and then have the lawyer edit it and revise it this is going to save you a lot of time and effort and a lot of money if you just say hey lawyer just write me this it's going to be a lot of hours yeah so have that template have that base make your adjustments and say you know change what you need to change so that i am protected and the odds that if you do it the other way you're going to get what you want are slim to none right like if you just call some lawyer up and you're like hey i need a privacy policy for x and i want it to be natural and blah blah and simple to read you're going to get some convoluted article that doesn't say anything of what you want it's some boilerplate template that they just have on the shelf that they're filling in with whatever so yeah you take the first swing at it and then you have a lawyer like put the legalese or kind of check that you know um [Music] jay again i think i brought this comment up before but i didn't we didn't spend much time addressing it it a hundred percent will cost you more money taking on bad clients than it will passing on them you may think i'm getting a quick win i'm gonna put this money in my pocket everything's good i just closed another deal and then six months into it or two months into it or a week into it or whatever it is you're just so frustrated with this project right and now you're like i wish i could give you the money back you know the clients calling you at all hours of the night they're never happy with anything you know and and they've well exceeded the scope of this thing and and you just you got to find ways for these trigger points and maybe joe we should have an episode about what are red flags right like actually i think if you go to the show red flag episode sure there's a suggestion up there about how to get rid of bad clients there's like one of the topics so this would be a good time to point out to everyone that you can vote on these episodes right if you'd like to see us talk about a specific topic if you'd like to see us talk you know or dive into something that interests you and go vote go to growth.fensuite.com check out the list that we have brewing there you can vote for any of those topics we've got a ton of cool topics coming up uh or you could suggest your own so um let's see let's also talk about next week next week we have how to optimize your webflow workflow and we are going to have a special thing for anybody who's here watching so if you're here you watch this episode uh [Music] i think we should keep him waiting all right no let's tell him let's tell him tell him tell him let's tell him all right we have built our own css naming convention in webflow we call it the client first system and the client first system is a web flow system built for our clients and it says hey clients we're building the site for you you want to edit it after you want to do things with it after you maybe want to work with somebody else a different webflow developer after we are building this site so anybody can go into it understand what's going on and start to grow the site so next week we're going to be talking about that and we are going to have some giveaways uh some freebies some cloneable give outs for the people here watching for the client first system and we are close to oh and we're close to launching it this is the last round of beta we've been using this internally for like six months now we've iterated we've iterated and now we're going to beta it with all of our f and growth listeners and it's dropping next week so you better be here yeah um and it will only be available for a during the show so we're literally going to make it cloneable during the show um or maybe we'll just even collect emails and we'll send you we'll transfer the projects or i don't know how we're going to do this but we're literally only going to make it limited release what we're looking for is now more live feedback from people using it in the wild and so we're going to do limited release for all of the people watching and then we'll do a formal release you know a few mo maybe a month or two down the road once we get all the feedback or a couple weeks down the road or whatever um the other thing let's see rohan just reminded me here we're looking for somebody to help with content and production post-production work on this podcast show notes and just different things and so like if anybody out there is watching and taking diligent notes and you're kind of already like studying and breaking this stuff down or kind of whatever we'd love to chat with you we're looking for someone to kind of help with the um pre and post-production work uh we won't go through the full job description but if you're interested there reach out to communications at finsuite.com rohan can you share that um email in the chat so people can reach out on that but yeah if you're looking uh that would be great let's see um anything else we need to chat about wow look how far over time we are that's great i think that's a great thing yeah hey we have all these questions people are you know we could do three up we could do three episodes of this topic yeah yeah i think the pricing stuff is one of those things that you can never talk too much about if you're like if you're early in your career and you have questions about this there's just not good places to find the stuff that you don't have to pay somebody a bunch of money to take their course for them to tell you exactly what we just broke through broke down in an episode you know and so like yeah um let's see this is better than an apple t-shirt there you go peter i appreciate that uh let's see anything else props for finn suite or other filter tutorial sites helped me a lot yep glad you guys found that useful let's see a share statement of work okay brian m is asking can we share a statement of work so we can see the format um maybe maybe i don't know uh not right now but you should know that it's incredibly simple it's bullet it's bullet points with topics seo bullet of what's included what's not copywriting bullet what's included what's not design what pages are included what's not it's just it's a person-to-person explanation of what we talked about previously on the phone just bullet points nothing fancy so yeah that that's that's what it is maybe we'll create a sample one and share it out but uh we obviously can't do that right now yeah um jayla you charge for copywriting yeah no we don't we absolutely will not engage in copywriting that is not a service we offer for a number of reasons yep um ariel do you ever accept payment and something else other than money like service or something like that um no no i do not recommend that yeah that's that's one of the red flags for people that are trying to be cheap or possible red flag it could be honest but usually it's a hey i don't want to pay any money how can i get free stuff from you without paying money so yeah i that that's an auto no yeah um i agree like a lot of times if they're not willing to put up the money to do the deal there are some instances especially early on in your career where barter might make sense right um i'm not saying you shouldn't consider barter it might make sense starting out you want to like do a thing with somebody sure but if you're looking to scale your business you should be looking to grow revenue based on website design and to grow revenue people need to pay you money and so that's kind of it by definition um let's see anything else i think that's probably good pay me a bitcoin okay well that's still money technically right so you could yeah for sure if you want to accept bitcoin i had some clients that were paying me in bitcoin for a while um they had a huge mining operation and it was easy for them to do i had no problem taking payment in bitcoin um it just again it depends on what you're trying to do this will be the last one i think here any update on the js webflow course yeah i just responded there okay we we have a lot of content for a javascript course it's complete and we are going to start filming very soon and then we're going to produce the videos and then we're going to release it for you timeline i do not know uh quentin you're awesome we appreciate you again thanks for hanging out with us uh today why doesn't things we have a discord with voice chat that's a good question i think we're exploring different channels that we can play inside of so stay tuned for some more updates on that as well as other episodes and things like this so i think with that in mind um i think that's it i think we're gonna wrap this up yeah this is another successful episode uh ending the show with 74 concurrent viewers and traction 360 total playbacks 17-minute average watch time um guys this has been amazing uh we've had a lot of fun doing these live streams we appreciate you all hanging out with us today i wish we could um you know get one on one and connect with you all we're actually maybe this is what we should do joe what do you think about after the shows or before the shows getting together in that little co-work space and having like little hangouts you know like little yeah like maybe there's some of this stuff happening is like one on one so yeah leave a thought um in the comment leave a comment for us if you would like to see that if you would like us to have like hangout sessions afterwards where we can get more intimate more one-on-one break off into small groups et cetera that might be fun so um okay nice that's all uh marcos the template is not available yet that'll be available next week you gotta tune in next week same bat time same bat channel um okay vote for the next show on the website growth.fensuite.com we will see you all next week adios oh play play the outro damn it oh you were so [Music] close that's so funny okay now i'm trying to time it perfectly on youtube and end it

Channel: Finsweet

Views: 3,461

Keywords: webflow, javascript

Id: 5qWny3knWpY

Length: 82min 0sec (4920 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 06 2021