1 Timothy 2:8-15 - Men and Women in the Church

this is a message from the ministry of calvary chapel santa barbara for more information about our church please visit calvary sb comm let's open up our Bibles to the book of first Timothy chapter 2 tonight we're gonna begin starting at verse eight and one of the things that I love about teaching the Bible chapter by chapter verse by verse is I found after doing it through many years that you don't have to seek for controversial subjects to teach on because if you teach faithfully chapter by chapter verse by verse the controversial subjects will just find you all on their own and tonight I'm gonna teach on a subject that at least in our day and age is a matter of controversy I reflected that on previous generations this might not be such a matter of controversy but it certainly is in our present day and age and instead of sort of discussing of what the controversy is beforehand I'll just get right into the text but I do want you to know that in general my teaching boy for either's here this evening will have three main aspects first of all I'm gonna talk about what second first Timothy chapter 2 says we're just gonna go through the text and discuss that which is obviously the most important thing we can do here together but then secondly I want to discuss at least briefly how the teaching and the truth of first Timothy chapter 2 fits in with the rest of the Bible's teaching about men and women and their roles in God's work and then finally I want to talk about answering what I would consider to be modern objections to what Paul teaches in 1st Timothy chapter 2 so let's begin just with a focus upon the text again this is our most important focus what does the text say this is what we're interested in 1st Timothy chapter 2 beginning at verse 8 now if you compared my teaching this week to last Wednesday night you'll notice that I'm overlapping just a bit and so the first couple verses verses 8 & 9 I'm gonna go over very quickly but I just want to discuss them a little bit to give us a little sense of the context because I think that's important verse 8 all rights under the inspiration of the holy spirit these are not just the musings of an old man this was by the inspiration the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit directed the Apostle Paul to write verse 8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting now Paul is saying something very specific here in verse 8 first of all he's talking about something that he once done in every church that's the sense of the words they're in verse 8 that the men pray everywhere in other words one commentator named Dwight says this the directions are to apply to every church without exception no allowance is to be made for the conditions peculiar to any locality that's the sense behind the original wording of everywhere that this is a broad comprehensive statement for how Paul thinks conduct should be carried out when God's people come together in meetings and what is it that the men pray everywhere now the ancient Jews often would describe their coming together in worship services as coming together to pray that was just kind of the shorthand we might say I'm going to Sunday for church I'm going to worship services they would say we're gathering for prayer what what Paul's indication here again it's pretty clear he wants men to lead the gatherings the congregational gatherings of God's people when they come together this isn't a way of saying listen I want men to pray everywhere put a man on every corner one out of the corner of State Street another one the corner of Garden Street another one of the Courtney on and Elian they'll get everybody no no that's not the idea the idea is where ever God's people gathered together as a congregation as the body of Christ not necessarily a home Bible study or a sub meeting of God's Way but the congregational gathering God's people that the men should lead Paul assumed that men would take the lead at the meetings of the congregation and the lifting up the hands was a common posture of Prayer in the ancient culture so this speaks of men leading public prayer representing God's people before God's throne again this commentator white translates the idea of the text he says quote the ministers of public prayer must be the men of the congregation not the women that's just the sense of the text here now verses 9 and 10 in like manner also that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel with propriety and moderation not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing but which is proper for women professing godliness with good works so after speaking a general word about the meetings of God's people and and who should take the leadership and the responsibilities there he says and this is something that I want women to consider in the gathering together of people I don't think that this is wasn't necessarily Paul's greatest priority upon women gathering together I mean his greatest priority is a list a little bit indicated by verses 9 and 10 and it's that simple idea that they should come together with the idea of godliness with good works that's the most important adornment for any woman the most important Dharma it's not the jewelry that you wear it's not the makeup you put on it's not the way that you style your hair it's godliness with good works I almost said with good looks but I it almost came out right there which would kind of go right against what Paul was saying but you get the I did correct myself until I just well you get the idea here this is Paul's edged emphasis here ladies ladies you of course are you welcoming of course you are when you come this is one thing for you to keep in mind again I don't think you for a moment Paul would say this is the only thing relevant to women women don't worry about prayer don't worry about bringing your Bible don't worry about anything else just make sure you're not overdressed no that's not the idea but again Paul's just addressing this one particular idea that women should dress with propriety and moderation when the church gets together now for verses 11 through 15 which some people regard as a problem passage I want you I don't particularly regard it as a problem passage although let me make an exception verse 15 is a bit of a problem just as an expository got in verse 15 and I'll talk about that in a moment but but the passage in general I think Paul's pretty clear in what he's saying all of it and this is why I emphasize verses 8 9 and 10 it's in the context of congregational gatherings in that context now starting at verse 11 let a woman learn in silence with all subjection to you in faith love and holiness with self-control now what we want to do is take this apart piece by piece and just simply examine it beginning with verses 11 and 12 let me read you again verses 11 and 12 let a woman learn in silence with all subjection which by the way let me say it's my preferred translation I don't think it's a perfect translation but I think it's solid I think it's good and for a variety of reasons I it's the one I prefer but but again I believe that this particular line translated a New King James translation is translated in an unfortunate way where Paul wrote there let a woman learn in silence I think that's a bad translation the very same ancient Greek word is translated in verse 2 just look up your chapter 2 verse 2 first Timothy chapter 2 verse 2 that very same ancient Greek word is translated peaceable it's the same word the idea is without contention without vocal objection this is not a command to women that as soon as you step through the doors of judge shut up don't say a word that that's not the idea at all the idea instead is that there to be peaceable without contention in other places in the New Testament even in the writings of Paul women are specifically mentioned as praying and speaking in the church under certain circumstances in particular 1st Corinthians chapter 11 especially at verse 5 it speaks of women praying or prophesying in the church if they wear a head covering now brothers and sisters it's not my intention tonight to go off on the whole idea of a head covering but I can summarize it very quickly the entire idea of a head covering in the Corinthian and the ancient culture it was an expression of saying I am under authority that's why a woman would wear a head covering the principle is under authority the expression of the principle in Corinthian culture was to wear a head covering wearing a head covering in our culture does not have the same expression when you see a woman in a church meeting with the distinct head covering you don't say wow she's under authority you say Wow you might say that's a nice head covering it's a goofy head come you say but that's a head covering it doesn't have the same cultural connotation please catch me on this the principle is to be throughout all generations of God's people the way the principle is expressed may differ from culture to culture generation to generation so all isn't describing a hat that a woman must wear and then just okay but that the woman must be under Authority and under certain circumstances if a woman is under the authority that God is appointed in the church that it would be permissible for her to pray or to prophesy now if Paul said that that was okay in first Corinthians 11 and again I'm thinking specifically at verse 5 but it's in other places in that chapter as well if Paul spit said that specifically then it gives even more credence that when he says peaceably I'll just read it again let a woman learn peaceably with all submission the idea isn't silence and shutting up now submission is the principle described in verse 11 learning in a peaceable way a non-contentious way that describes the application of the principle now it's very possible as well and I'm going to be straight with you as a expositor as someone who's very interested and in sometimes the cultural and the historical connections of God's Word I don't know entirely how much to make of this dynamic I'm about to describe to you but in the ancient world especially among the ancient Jews when the congregation would gather men and women would sit on different sides of the synagogue or the building they would have and I couldn't tell you which one was which but just for example they would have all the the the men over to the speakers right and all the women over to the speakers left and again it might be reversed but you get the idea they were separated there are some people who think that was Paul is really instructing here and they would connect it to a similar idea in first Corinthians chapter 14 is what Paul was prohibiting was women interrupting the message shouting out questions objections or anything like that and that they should be quiet about those and as Paul would instruct later on in first Corinthians that they should ask their own husbands at home about such things that that is definite possibility I I can't say that I can teach that to you as an absolute yes I know exactly that's behind Paul's thinking but whether in the Ephesian churches which again was not one congregation but many congregations over an entire region Paul said that women should recognize that the the male leadership that they should not lead in the prayers and that they shouldn't be contentious about the teaching they should as he says their show the submission of being peaceable so that's the idea there in that first phrase but notice this in verse 11 when he says that they should do it with all submission friends this is an important concept for us to grab on to that word for submission is the familiar word in the New Testament for submission or to submit it has a military origin it literally means in a military sense to be under rank and again I've never been in the military service god bless you those of us who have served our nation or even other nations with your military service that's a wonderful thing it's a it's a great benefit to our society to a culture we thank you for that but having never served I mean I just know about this from the outside but from what I understand in the military there's all different ranks of officers and enlisted men and the ranking is pretty important that that certain obedience certain obligations certain respect is due to officers above you in the chain of command and it has nothing to do with their personal character it has nothing to do necessarily with their intelligence there's many an elicited man who thinks he's smarter than the general but still he has to snap to a smart salute and do as he's commanded to why because there must be proper submission coming under rank now what do I mean I don't mean for that in a moment that it's the job of the women to give a snappy salute to the male leadership of the church not that at all but what I'm saying is that it has has to do with God's order of authority it has nothing to do for example with who are the smartest people not necessarily with who are the most gifted people who are the most spiritual people but God says I've established an order of authority and Submission recognizes that order of Authority Warren wears me speaks to this very well let me read you a quote from him quote anyone who has served in the armed forces know that rank has to do with order and authority not with value or ability just as an army would be in confusion if there were no levels of authority so society would be in chaos without submission that's why following verse 11 Paul says in verse 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man Paul's meaning here seems clear and by the way in verse 12 I don't believe he's saying two different things I don't permit a woman to teach and then now let me say something different or to have authority over a man no he's speaking in the context of congregational life that a woman should not have the role of teaching authority in the church Paul is saying here that the church should not recognize women as those having authority in the church regarding matters of doctrine and scriptural interpretation in my mind it just seems pretty clear and logical from Paul's whole train of thought that this is what he's saying but however let me say I think it's very important for us to recognize what he's not saying when I take a look at the scriptures in their entirety I see no we're taught let me say this with emphasis I see no we're taught a general submission of women unto in other words women in general must submit to men in general I don't see that anywhere in the scriptures I see in the scriptures that in two institutions God has ordained male leadership those two institutions are the home and the church and doesn't it make perfect sense that God would make an alignment between those two institutions in the home and in the church God has ordained male leadership he hasn't commanded male leadership in the fields of politics economics education you know engineering on on and on and on and on I don't see any scriptural prohibition whatsoever to a a woman politician or president matter of fact I got to say when I was a younger man one of the things that my wife and I really got a kick out of one occasion was we got to go to the House of Commons sit in on Question Hour when Margaret Thatcher was answering questions from the opposition party in the houses of parliament and man it was a thrill Margaret Thatcher was a remark one I believe strategic and what God was doing in the world at that time and there was no scriptural reason whatsoever that somebody said well Margaret Thatcher you shouldn't be Prime Minister of the United Kingdom that's nonsense but in two fields God has ordained male leadership again in the home and in the church now when we say this and when we say how it applies to congregational life that a woman should not have a position of teaching authority in the church we come to recognize that not all speaking or teaching by a woman is necessarily a violation of God's order of authority in the church whatever speaking or teaching is done by a woman should be done in submission to the men that God has chosen to lead that congregation and when you start thinking about how that principle applies practically in a congregation I'll tell you what sometimes it can get a little difficult in other words you may find Christians that agree on that principle but there may be disagreement to the specific ways that it works out in other words a may a woman teach a woman's Bible study most believers say yes no problem with that she's not whose Serpa the any kind of doctrinal teaching sense over the church in general may a woman teach a Sunday School class of first grade boys and girls well most people would say yes and praise the Lord for those who do and do it so well especially in our congregation and again I think rightly so nobody has a problem with it nobody's saying uh-uh get all the young boys out of her class she's exercising authority over men nobody says that and nobody should I believe but as you continue going you can see where there might be some disagreement somewhere at some point along the way may a woman teach a Sunday School class of middle school boys and girls may a woman teach a Sunday School class of high school boys and girls may a woman teach a Sunday school class of college-age boys and girls I think you can see without me pronouncing an absolute yes or no and there could be some legitimate disagreement again agreeing on the principle but having a little bit different opinion as to exactly where that line is drawn but then it gets even more problematic may a woman teach a one-off midweek evening service or if you want to go even further down the level of continuity may a woman teach a one-off Sunday morning service again what I'm trying to stress here is that believers can agree on the principle but have some disagreement as to how exactly that principle works out and let me give you an example of how this can get complicated Pastor Chuck Smith famously had at least once Corrie ten Boom speak on a Sunday morning to his church Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa and it was of some controversy when he did it there were some people not pleased by that but Pastor Chuck I guess said this is Corrie ten Boom she's gonna speak at the church and she spoke at least once maybe more on a Sunday morning at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa now again did that mean that Chuck Smith didn't believe in the principle that Chuck Smith said no woman shouldn't be pastors women shouldn't regulate no of course he believed in that look at his entire ministry there at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa but apparently he thought that that one exception was okay Chuck Smith approved of women speaking in general sessions to Calvary Chapel missionary conferences I know because I went to some of them when Pastor Chuck was still there and there were times when women would speak to a conference in a general session Chuck Smith had a Chinese church leader named mama Quan speak to Calvary Chapel pastors at a Calvary Chapel pastors conference in the 1980s I know this because I was there I have vivid memories of this we were up at Twin Peaks there in the opportunity and there in the auditorium I should say and this this tall Chinese woman of sort of regal bear and came and she was a house church leader of some renown in China and she came and talked about what God was doing there and I can't exactly say that she preached a message but she shared something from the scriptures and she exhorted the pastors and she was presented to the gathered pastors now I'm just saying that to say this Chuck Smith very much believed that the teaching authority of the church was the role of qualified and called men not women those exceptions rare as they were did not seem to disturb him or disqualify the principle in his mind I would put it to you this way from my reading of both this first Timothy to text and in first Corinthians 11 and first Corinthians 14 I see the principle in a strong and clear way women are always to act under Authority in the congregation to demonstrated in corinthian culture by the wearing of a head covering and in the Ephesian culture by especially not contesting or or debating or or or just learning I in the affirmative learning with a quiet and submissive spirit in the church meetings therefore a woman in the Corinthian church could only pray or prophesy if she demonstrated that she was under the leadership of the church by the head covering and she would demonstrate it that way now again I see this working out in a church culture in a not very difficult way God has called men to be the pastors and doctrinal authorities in the church there is rich and necessary and fertile ground for women to serve and glorify God in the ministry but not in the leadership in particular in the doctrinal leadership of the church and I would define that that the definition may differ a little bit from time to time and culture to culture but in our present age I would say to define that as pastors and elders I would say this now speak to us from my own perspective here take it for what it's worth I believe that one special danger in this regard is having the pastor's wife substitute for him in the pulpit you see I want to make this clear the pastor's wife is not just another woman in the church no way you see her husband's role is more than a job you don't expect any particular you know place around the doctor's wife or the lawyers wife or anything else but a pastor's wife is different because with the pastor's wife her husband's work is more than a job it's a calling and because it's a calling it's something that she shares in at least in a special partnership in their marriage but she isn't the pastor and in my opinion she shouldn't stand in in the pulpit for the pastor in any way that would say this I'm here as a substitute for my husband's pastoral authority see I think the exactly the wrong message to say that's a bad message nevertheless even though I think there can be exceptions that don't dishonor the principle of men taking the role of a pastoral and doctrinal authority in the church I've kind of given the two exceptions that come to my mind two names and these are just names I'll throw out there of my own creation the first thing I would call it as I call it the Corrie ten Boom exception you know a one-off presentation by a remarkable woman in that she's not contesting doctrinal points and she's done at the invitation and the proper authority of the church leadership that that just seems to me it's it's a one-off exception it's not a taking of doctrinal Authority or spiritual leadership in the church the other exception I would say I would call it the Pioneer missionary exception look if there's nobody else to do the teaching then we can accept that it's a less than ideal situation and do what we can all the while working towards the ideal I mean somebody likes to paint the scenario now host I assume it's happened more than once I assume it's happening somewhere in the world at this time where there's a place that's so devoid of any kind of biblical teaching that there's just nobody to teach the Bible except this woman who's come from the outside to comment and there's just no qualified men to do it at all well I think look there's lots of situations in the scriptures where when you can't do the ideal you do what you can and work towards the ideal let me give you an example of that that goes back to the like early days of the Jesus Movement in the early days of Jesus and when so many young people were coming to the Lord so fast and they needed some kind of structure some kind of leadership there's many famous stories of you know that here's this collection guys okay we're gonna make you three guys elders why well cuz you've been believers for six months and everybody else have only been believers for two months now would you normally make guys who have been believers six months elders no you'd never do that but listen there are some situations where you just do the best you can under the present circumstances and then work towards the ideal now I think that there may be situations on the mission field where that's exactly what one does look it's not ideal but you work towards the ideal and do the best you can in the moment but again notice the focus here in verse 12 he says I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man in this clear chain of authority that God has established in both the home and the church in those spheres God has ordained that men are the head that qualified and called men are to have the place of authority in the church and as I said before I'll repeat it again the Bible is specific that there is no general submission of women unto men commanded in society and it also does not mean this that every woman in the church is under the authority of every man in the church what are you kidding me like just it any man in the church has the authority to go up to any woman in the church and say well I think you should do this to this look oftentimes the woman would have every right say get lost mister I don't know who you are no we're not talking about some Jen submission of women unto men what we're talking about is God saying in the leadership of the church elders pastors those entrusted with the doctrinal health and authority of the church they are to be men and that is to be respected the other thing that needs to be stress is this nobody should think for a moment that simply being male means you're qualified for leadership in the church are you kidding me no being male isn't the qualification for leadership there's very specific spiritual and character qualifications for leadership and we're going to talk about those on next Wednesday but no no it's it's very clear that this isn't just a matter of men in general or qualified no no and we need to point out this very strongly the greatest hindrance to carrying out God's order of authority I don't think it comes from those who are to submit to God's order of authority I think the greatest threat comes from those who do not lead the way that Jesus would have them lead that has been a chief cause of rejection of male Authority and it is inexcusable when men use their position of authority to lord it over to demand that others serve them instead of being the servants of all their abusive and failed to protect this is a great shame upon God's church and it does more to discredit God's order of authority than an unsubmitted action does the greatest danger to God's appointed Authority is the abuse or the misuse of that authority now before I move on to verse 13 let me say this last some feel that recognizing God's order of authority and submitting to God's order of authority is an unbearable burden it means that this is what I have to say if I have to submit to God's order of authority in the home or in the church then it means I'm inferior I'm nothing I have no recognition and I have to recognize this other person as being superior brother and sisters let me tell you again inferiority or superiority has nothing to do with this and one of the greatest illustrations of this is the relationship between God the Father and God the Son during the days of Jesus's earthly ministry Jesus was no less God than God the Father but he willingly submitted to and came under the order of authority of God the Father the idea that to be under authority makes a person inferior or degrades them that is a very worldly and fleshly way to think about power and authority it's not a godly way of thinking at all now I believe that in verses 11 and 12 Paul has stated the principle clearly it may be in fact a little bit too clearly for some people that's why they consider it to be a problem passage but I think verses 13 and 14 are also fascinating because here in verses 13 and 14 Paul's going to give us two reasons for God's order of Authority as if that interesting that he gives us the reasons now wants you as we take a look at verses in 13 14 to look carefully at these reasons because let me tell you but Paul's reasons are not because I'm a chauvinistic misogynist Paul would say that's why I say they do that's not the reason why Paul doesn't say well it's because men are wonderful and girls are icky no it's not because of that it's not because well men are smart and trained and women are dumb and untrained it's not because of that that's not in verses 13 and 14 in verses 13 and 14 it doesn't say well it's just because of the particular dynamic you have going on there in Ephesus please brothers and sisters know the reasons Paul gives in verses 13 and 14 he's gonna explain the reasons for the principle in verses 11 and 12 verse 13 14 for Adam was formed first then Eve and Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived fell into transgression I see here two reasons in these two verses the first reason is the order of creation for Adam was formed first the first reason why there should be male authority in the church and again I think the same principle transfers over to the home but what's in view here is the church is because of the order of creation Adam man was created first and given original authority on earth and the idea that Adam was created first and Eve came from Adam is important it's emphasized again in 1st Corinthians chapter 11 you and I may think of that well who cares what does it matter who was created first brother so I have to say is that the Bible makes a significant deal out of this the Bible makes a significant deal out of the fact that man and woman were created in a different manner than all the other animal creation that with all the other animal creation God created a male tiger and a female tiger a male elephant and a female elephant a male kangaroo and a female kangaroo no why I'm only choosing mammals but you get the idea but when it came to the creation of man God deliberately mixed it up and he mixed it up with a reason that is rich with theological meaning he created man and then he later created woman from the man we have no indication that God did there's any other way with any other aspect of this creation and again it's part of the emphasis God want in place that in some spheres again I would stress stress the church and in the home God says man has the headship he's the origin he's the source this is something I want respected in this order of authority the first command that God ever gave to the human race is found in Genesis chapter 2 verses 16 and 17 it says this of every tree of the garden you may freely eat but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die this command was not given to the woman at all at the time that this command was given Eve was not yet created from Adam therefore Adam received his command and his authority from God and Eve received her command and authority from Adam this is an order of authority that God established back in Eden so that's the first aspect the other aspect also goes back to Eden here's the second reason verse 14 an Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived fell into transgression the second reason is the difference in the sin of Adam and Eve and it's connected to their difference in authority listen we know this both Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden and chronologically speaking Eve sinned first yet isn't it fascinating that the Bible never blames Eve for the fall of the human race never but it always blames Adam let me read you Romans chapter 5 verse 12 through one man sin entered the world he didn't say one woman one person through one meant how did sin enter the world through Eve no through Adam Adam is responsible for the fall of the human race because there was a difference of authority Adam had authority that Eve did not have catch this therefore he also had responsibility that Eve did not have Rutan sisters God knows what he's doing god never grants authority without responsibility and he also never gives responsibility without corresponding authority Eve was not responsible for the fall of the human race Adam was there was this important difference in their authority and responsibility as well notice what verse 14 says that Eve was deceived and Adam was not deceived Eve was tricked but Adam sinned knowing exactly what he was doing Eve's ability to be more readily deceived made her more dangerous in that place of authority it has been observed and I can't say that I know this is the reason for God's command but it has been observed and I think rightfully so that women are more spiritually sensitive than men I would say on general that's true again we're speaking in generalities I'm sure it wouldn't take you far to find a man who's more spiritually sentient a certain man than a certain woman but in general women are more spiritually sensitive than men now here's the thing is that a good thing or a bad thing well it can be a good thing but it can be a bad thing as well I think one and by no means what I'd say this is the only but one of the reasons why God has appointed male authority in the church is cuz men are more thick-headed they're less likely to very I didn't say they won't very because of course sometimes they do but less likely to vary from the truth than in general women are and again I don't want to say for a moment that's the only reason I just think that's an additional reason but significantly these reasons that Paul gave are not dependent upon culture they're not dependent upon locality those people who say Paul was a sexist man in a sexist culture or this only applied to specific problems in Ephesus and use that thinking to discount what Paul has written here listen I don't think that they're reading what the Holy Spirit says in this great sacred scriptures very carefully he's given us the reasons and the reasons are rooted back in Genesis they don't have anything to do with contemporary culture either in Paul's day or in our own now to conclude the chapter let's take a look at the one verse that I think is difficult in this passage verse 15 he concludes by saying nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith love and holiness with self-control now that this has been a difficulty for many people and of course I see the difficulty don't you but from a first reading you say well a godly woman will not die in childbirth that this is a promise and of course we just know throughout history that there have been many godly women who have died in childbirth in our modern age it's not so common but just a few generations ago it was very common for women to die in childbirth including some very godly ones so what what about this what's going on here is this an absolute promise well what about godly women who have died in childbirth what about sinful women who have survived childbirth just fine well what's going on here with this well I'd say this is a little bit difficult interpreting some people describe this particular verse is one of the most difficult to understand and in the New Testament I would point you towards something that somebody pointed out to me in the text many years ago in the original Greek phrasing of verse 15 this is what it says she will be saved in the childbirth in other words there's the definite article V before childbirth it's translated New King James childbearing but it's just the word for childbirth she will be saved in V childbirth and the man I heard explained this I think explained and to me I don't know if it's a great answer but it's the best one I've heard is that what this really is it's it's Paul's way of referring to the birth of Jesus Messiah the ultimate childbirth it's as if Paul saying this even though women were deceived as he mentioned in the previous verse and even though they fell into transgression starting with Eve women can be saved by the Messiah whom a woman brought into the world God has given to womankind a special blessing and dignity and by no means is it the only special dignity and blessing that he's given to womankind but it's a wonderful one the privilege of bringing the Messiah into the world she will be saved in the childbirth the birth of Jesus the Messiah and even though the woman race so to speak did something bad in the garden by being deceived and falling into transgression the woman race again so to speak also did something greater in being used by God to bring the Messiah into the world again I I don't necessarily know if that's a great explanation of this but it's the best explanation I've come across the emphasis I think should be placed on the last few words of the verse where he says simply this if they continue in faith love and holiness with self-control most of all we should note the positives the these are qualities that God looks for to be evident in women and that women have effectively nurtured in their children throughout the generations now that's kind of my examination here over the past many minutes this passage first Timothy chapter 2 verses 8 through 15 as I told you I want to spend a little bit of time talking about how this fits in with the rest of the Bible's teachings now I have to say this this sort of review of what the Bible says about men and women in the church it may be a little bit different than what you've heard before it I I'm a little surprised as I deliver it myself when you think about it the Bible strongly presents spiritual leadership in connection with men in the Bible I mean look you just can't get around it God's own gender identification is male now I'm definitely not a guy that speaks about people being able to identify their own gender but if there was ever a being who should be allowed the privilege of identifying his gender it's God because God is neither male or female do we understand that God is God God objectively as he reigns in eternity he is neither male nor female therefore if God chooses to represent himself through a gender that is rich with theological meaning and brothers/sisters overwhelmingly 99 probably 0.5% of the time there's a few obscure references where God sort of identifies himself in a somewhat feminine way in the scriptures but I mean you're talking about less than 1% of the mentions of God overwhelmingly God represents himself as a male in the scriptures as father as son and even the pronouns referring to the Holy Spirit refer to a he not in it not as she God deliberately is chosen to represent himself as a male spiritual authority to humanity even though we recognize theologically God is beyond men male and female now you can't tell me that's meaningless you can't just say well that doesn't mean anything it's very important God's covenants throughout the scriptures his covenants with Adam Noah Abraham the patriarch Moses David they were all made with men the priesthood of Israel was restricted to men the kings of Israel were all men with one exception the Evil Queen Athaliah and I don't think anybody will hold her up as an example the prophets of Israel were overwhelmingly men now there were some women prophets no doubt about it Miriam hold uh a few more there were some definite women prophets no doubt but but if you weigh them by relative numbers it's a very small percentage the occasional woman leader appears in the Old Testament you do have a deborah coming up every once in a while you'll have a notable woman leader like a a Miriam even though she got into her own trouble as well an Esther but again the over woman if you just add up the numbers it's a very small percentage I can't let this by without noting that the chosen disciples of Jesus and the chosen apostles of Jesus were all men now I say the chosen ones because there were definitely apostles and to me definitely disciple and followers of Jesus that were women no doubt about that but when Jesus chose the twelve and chose the apostles he deliberately chose and I just want you to consider for a moment that if Jesus intended forgive my I don't mean this say this in a mocking way if Jesus intended to blow the doors off the patriarchy he could have done it very easily choose half women disciples choose half you know women as apostles but he didn't the leadership of the church in acts is overwhelmingly male the addressing of pastoral letters we have pastoral letters to Timothy to Titus and one to Philemon that's not quite a pastor but we link it in there in some way those are letters written to men when you get into the qualifications of leadership that's in first Timothy that we're gonna take a look at next week and then later on in the book of Titus it's written to man pastors elders bishops they're all in reference to men now there's a possible itay even a probable mention of women deacons in first Timothy chapter 3 but that isn't a position of doctrinal authority that's a position of recognized service honorable service honorable and essential unto the Lord no doubt but again not doctrinal leadership now that sounds pretty almost harsh when I put it out that way doesn't it but let me say this even with all that the impression of an ancient reader of the Bible would have been surprised if not shocked at how the Bible honored women and respected their rights if you look at how women are often treated in the Muslim world today that was traditional in Jesus's day then ancient reader of the Bible would have their mind blown by reading the Bible and seeing that women play a key role in the coming of the Messiah and the salvation of the world they'd be blown away to see that in the Bible marriage rights and property rights of women are respected they'd be blown away to see that in the Bible if a woman is taken as a prisoner of war as a slave she has to be treated honorably and can't just be treated in a dishonorable way they'd see that God does in fact use women not normally in positions of spiritual leadership over the broad community but God definitely uses women they'd see that Jesus allowed women in the broader company of his disciples that he taught women he honored women he protected women they would see that God considered women trustworthy messengers of his good news he'd see that God honored women both single and married for their own place in his church and an ancient reader would be blown away that God specifically says that men or women do not have a higher spiritual status than the other you know the initial survey I gave you that talks about you know the the male pattern of leadership and authority but that's like whoa but from the perspective and the ancient reader you'd read the Bible go I can't believe the honor and the Grace and the goodness that it shows towards women if they think of a notable and honored women just of the New Testament I'll list off a few of them right here Elizabeth Mary Anna a whole bunch of other Mary's in the Gospels Martha Joanna wrote a Lydia Dorcas Priscilla Lois Eunice Phoebe Rhoda yet for all those specific names that many of you know and you go yeah honorable wonderful women and God's work in the New Testament for all those significant names we do not see any of them in positions of teaching authority over congregations you just don't Priscilla in Acts chapter 18 is a marvelous example of this Priscilla and Aquila her husband taught Apollo's it says that they both taught them and from the way that it words it it might imply that Priscilla had a leading role in it because her name is mentioned first they taught Apollo's but it's clearly in the context of one-on-one not having authority over a congregation could Priscilla teach yes but she was not given a position of teaching authority over a congregation she beautifully exercised her gifts in God appointed ways one of them including her and her husband sitting down and teaching Apollo's what the scripture said about the Messiah and the fullness of God's work in him now let me finish with understanding and answering some of the modern objections to Paul's teaching here in first Timothy chapter 2 and what I see to be consistently God's teaching throughout the scriptures about the emphasis that there's male Authority and responsibility male leadership to be in the church and in the home what are these objections well let me just say first of all that the understanding of this that I've just presented to you um it's rejected by many people in the body of Christ today I don't know if it's a minority opinion my view I don't know if it's a minority opinion but I think it's a shrinking opinion it's getting less and less more and more people abandon what I think the scriptures say at this particular point and there are many attempts to explain the idea that the Bible has no specific roles for men or women in either the church or the home I'm gonna go through these quickly because you know how many I'm gonna answer 15 of them and I just want you understand the sheer number of them is significant to me do you know why because when I see this many it speaks to me of the attitude that kind of says this well we know this is wrong let's figure out a reason why well I don't think that's how you really study the Bible you say what did the scriptures say and go from there but but to me it almost smacks and I gotta say and I I don't say this I hope to be mean but I think that approach is never good to say what we know this must be wrong let's try to figure out a reason why now let the Scriptures speak for themselves and we must always be cautious when there is a great urgency to figure out how the Bible agrees with the spirit of the age now the spirit of our age says no difference in the roles of the Spirit of our edge says there's no difference between men and women period much less their roles the spirit of our age says that the only reason you can say a woman can't do something is you're a sexist you're a misogynist you hate women and you just pretend you believe that's what the Bible says brothers all I can do in sisters to say before you in the integrity of my heart I believe what I believe because I honestly believe the Bible teaches it and if somebody could show me through the clear teaching of the Bible that I'm wrong I would agree that I'm wrong matter of fact even though I'm gonna go through this list of 15 things pretty quickly I want you to know I've studied this in great depth why if I'm wrong I want to know it and I want to read the best arguments from the other side bring me your best arguments I don't want to do battle with straw men and fantasies if I'm wrong I want to know it I'm not afraid of the best arguments on their side come them but when I weigh them on the balances I got to say my judgment at this point is that they all lack so let's just go through this list of 15 I hope I'm not keeping you too long here this evening so let's talk about these um number one you know what I'm gonna give you is the assertion of an opponent and then I'll answer it number one any hierarchy among men and women is the result of the fall and the curse and the curse has done away with in Jesus this is a popular way of sort of what they would say dealing with first Timothy chapter two but I want you understand this remember when we talked about Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden God's order of authority between Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden was established before the fall before the fall it was not a result of the fall Eve was created from Adam before the fall Adam was given the command and Eve received it from Adam before the fall the reasons Paul gives in 1st Timothy chapter 2 our reasons that go back to before the fall not after it and if this was true then why is it true that the New Testament doesn't show women in positions of spiritual authority if this was Jesus's mission to show hey I've totally blown the doors off of that then again Jesus why didn't you appoint six female apostles you could have blown the doors off the patriarchy right then number two equal standing also means equivalent in role Galatians chapter 3 chapter 3 verse 28 cancels out any idea of their being different roles for men or women in the church or the home now do you know Galatians chapter 3 verse 28 let me read that verse to you I'm sorry I don't have it up on the screen but let me read to you it's a very important verse and relevant to this it says there is neither June or Greek there is neither slave nor free there is neither male nor female for you are all one in Christ Jesus that's a very important verse relevant to how God sees people in his kingdom neither Jew nor Greek neither slave nor free neither male nor female now the problem is is that some people take this verse to basically be a Trump verse it Trump's over every other verse in the New Testament that has to do with male or female so what they're saying is look I don't know what Paul means in 1st Timothy 2 but I know what he means in Galatians 3:28 Galatians 3:28 cancels out first Timothy to go fish I mean it's really just that kind of thinking that that verse just cancels out every other verse let me just say that's not how we rightly divide the word of truth we don't approach the Bible looking for verses that cancel out other verses though let me say this sometimes this is specifically stated to be the case as with animal sacrifice that is canceled out but it's specifically described our job is to take the biblical information and to rightly divide the word of truth not to use some verses to cancel out other verses so I don't cancel out Galatians 3:28 men and women have absolutely the same standing before God the man isn't more righteous than a woman a man isn't less righteous than a woman we're equal before the cross and Jesus Christ end of story but that doesn't mean that there's not different roles according to God's administration according to men and women the idea that one may be equal in standing yet being under Authority is key to the Bible and as I said before it's even reflected in the Godhead the relationship between the father and the son in jesus's earthly ministry number three and I said we have 15 I shouldn't have told you there was 15 because now you're thinking this gonna take forever but I'll go a little faster number three Paul was a chauvinist a misogynist he said that women shouldn't be elders bishops pastors or have positions of doctrine Thor because he hated women I would just say that's not even worth answering because it denies the inspiration of Scripture just move on if that's really what somebody thinks I've got much bigger fish to fry with them than the roles of men and women there's we need to talk about the inspiration scripture number four you can't deny somebody's calling if God calls who are we to object well I would say this ladies the call to teach lead serve and minister can totally be used and God gives those callings and gifts to women just not over a congregation in general God wants you to use your gifts and use your calling the only question is in what sphere and we have to understand that it's possible for a person to use the idea of calling to justify any kind of unbiblical behavior look the Bible says lots of people are disqualified from leadership and they can't just say well I know I'm disqualified but I'm called by God doesn't work that way a new convert may still feel called but again is not qualified so those two ideas just don't match number five what Paul wrote in first Timothy two had only to do with the women of Ephesus of the first century who had their particular issues there was a female cult in Ephesus the lack of training I would just say simply this we went through that text in some depth that's not what Paul says in 1st Timothy 2 if it was just a local issue he would have explained it that way he gives reasons and they have nothing to do with either culture or location and if that was the case you would expect to see female pastors bishops elders in other New Testament churches where they didn't have the problems of Ephesus you don't see him nowhere in the Apostolic Church number six women are leaders just like men Deborah in the Old Testament is an example of this I don't know how to say this tenderly but the rarity of examples like Deborah doesn't argue in favor of women having an equal place the phenomenon of rare and exceptional leaders like Deborah argues for the fact that those are rare exceptions that God sometimes allows not that it's to be his regular order God's regular order repeated again and again and I just want you I I don't want to get caught up on a rare exception we're talking about God's regular order God can and does sometimes use women in wonderful and sometimes unusual ways it's just there's not a practice to be made of it number seven women preach and teach and prophesy in the New Testament and I can give scriptural references for each one of those anything that seems to imply that they cannot must be mistaken now it's true in Matthew chapter 28 women preached the first good news that Jesus rose from the dead and that was a significant honor that Jesus gave to the women at the tomb it's true that Priscilla taught a Apollo's it's true that in Acts and in Corinthians we see women prophesying in the church all of that's true none of that argues that women should have positions of doctrinal authority and spiritual leadership in the church we are thrilled when women preach when women teach when women prophesy just as they do it according to God's appointed Authority number eight women were among the followers and supporters of Jesus amen may there be more like them but again none of those are presented as positions of doctrinal Authority or spiritual leadership in the church number nine this one's a little bit obscure head only means source and does not carry a sense of authority this is an argument made from first Corinthians chapter 11 and 14 and the Ephesians passage I'm not going to get into that but let me just say in the ancient thinking head means both source and authority they don't contradict each other at all the concepts were directly related in the thinking of the in ancient mind number 10 again just a little obscure Junia the Apostle was a woman romans 16 7 well this is a controversial passage because there's a mention of a junior who is of note among the Apostles in Romans chapter 16 verse 7 most people agree that junior there is a man not a woman but whether it was a man or a woman the idea there is that junior was known to the Apostles not that she or he was an apostle and I would say this no matter how somebody approaches Romans 16 7 if you want to build the case for complete equality of role in ministry in the New Testament and biblical church that's a very small nail to hang such a large thing upon number 11 this is one I hear a lot of today hey nobody should be in charge we should just all work together again I I want to say this delicately but this is often what those who want to be in charge say nobody should be in charge listen of course men and women can should and must work together for the good of the kingdom of God but that doesn't eliminate God's stated order of a already in the home and in the church number 12 there are so many different opinions it's so uncertain that no one can be sure what it should be at all well this is the classic claim of those who stir up controversy they kick up a bunch of dust and they say look there's all this dust nobody can see the issue I would just say this brother and sisters and again I I don't mean to sound cruel with this but just to say the Scriptures speak maybe you don't want to see them or recognize what they say but they speak number 13 you can't disqualify more than 50% of the church from such leadership positions well I can't but God can and God actually disqualifies far more than 50% of the church because many or most men are not qualified for positions of spiritual leadership and doctrinal authority in the church so take it up with God number 14 you can't prohibit women from preaching the gospel amen hallelujah and I don't want to this has nothing to do with positions of doctrinal authority in the church woman if you want to go out and Stearns Wharf and preach the gospel go for it you're not taking authority over a congregation you're not taking spiritual authority you're proclaiming the gospel so nobody's even talking about that now the last one I'm gonna mention is somewhat different and I'm gonna go over it quickly even though I could spend a whole evening on this it's different because at least some what it takes seriously what the Bible says about male headship in the home in the church it affirms that this is what Jesus taught and this is what Paul billet taught and this is what the Apostolic Church practiced yet it basically says what Jesus taught Paul taught in the early church practice was all an accommodation to patriarchy patriarchal culture and God wants us to move beyond that here's number 15 the New Testament was written to accommodate patriarchal culture and now we must move beyond that the trajectory of God's redemptive movement through the centuries means that such things should change and can change I could spend a whole evening talking this is kind of the latest and greatest approach I would just summarize it by saying this this puts far too little confidence in God's enduring word and it puts too much confidence in the culture the trajectory of culture hasn't been as good as these people seem to think and they often will try to make a parallel between this and the ideas of slavery and abolition I just say the parallel does not fit now let me conclude with this I've put forth what I believe first Timothy chapter 2 by the way you've done an amazing job hanging on through a study that's much longer than I thought it would be I've explained what first Timothy 2 says I've tried to bring up at least in some regard the entire span of the scriptures both in its assertion of male leadership but then also it's honoring of women and then finally I've just very quickly clicked through 15 objections this teaching let me end with this how should we think of those who believe in women pastors women teachers who think that it's a wonderful thing for women to have teaching authority over men how should we consider this because those people are out there in the body of Christ and they're our brothers and sisters in the body of Christ how do we regard them well let me give you how I regard them first of all they're wrong they're wrong on this point now certainly not not necessarily stupid or unspiritual I'm not trying to say that they're dishonest or this that I'm just saying brother sister you're wrong on this I mean I believe this is what the Bible teaches I've studied the other side's exhaustively as I attempt to the best of my ability to rightly divide the word of truth I'd say that what I've talked to you here this evening is right and those who believe that women should be pastors and have doctrinal spiritual authority of the body Christ they're wrong they're mistaken but I don't think they're heretics at least not on this issue or for this issue now it may be an indication of biblical unfaithfulness in other areas but not necessarily so but listen those who say well God doesn't care what people do with their sexuality or often the same ones that say God doesn't care what genders do in the church either now they may have good intentions but they may very well be influenced by the culture in ways that they themselves can't discern or detect and I would just simply say if they carry it out in a church they're disobedient in church practice in a way that's real and significant it has consequences I got to say just for my own experience I've seen this up close just from my time in Sweden the Church of Sweden which is a traditionally Lutheran Protestant Church it is well more than 50% of the active pastors are women something like 80 percent of the people in their seminaries and training colleges are women it's becoming completely feminized even to the point where one of the significant bishops in the Church of Sweden is not just a woman but a lesbian and ladies and gentlemen you if if this was something wonderful that would bring revival to the church you'd see it breaking out all over the Church of Sweden but it's not with pain and respect it's circling down the drain the Church of Sweden is irrelevant to the society and declining declining declining I I think it bears bad fruit I believe I can't prove this biblically but I'll just give you my opinion take it for whatever you want I believe God has implanted something in humanity especially in men I can't speak so much for you women but especially in men we are wired to respect male spiritual authority that's one of the reasons I believe why God represents himself to us as male even though he's beyond male and female and when this is denied and acted against it has real negative consequences in the church I got to say it's even more strange to me when churches say they are doctrinally egalitarian they have no problem with women pastors but they only have women preached as a token once or twice a year that seems like a very strange practice to me but I'll just say this it'll never be my practice or the practice of a church I could serve to agree women in positions of pastoral or doctrinal authority it's not something to excommunicate others over in the larger body of Christ I'm not going to sniff out women pastor and say you're not a Christian you're out of the body cries to know that's between them and God but I regard this for myself in our congregation has an opportunity to hold on to God's truth and to represent him in love to the community so father help us to do that thank you Lord Lord I thank you for the remarkable patience of this congregation here tonight and father I just pray for your blessing on us as we go for it help Lord those who are in authority to represent you in a way that brings you honor and glory that shows the service Lord truly that's marked by honoring you and we give you our hearts our lives and hopefully Lord our obedience in Jesus name Amen this is a message from the Ministry of Calvary Chapel Santa Barbara for more information about our church please visit calvary sb calm

Channel: David Guzik

Views: 18,961

Rating: 4.6015325 out of 5

Keywords: complimentarianism egalitarianism women pastors

Id: _LIaFoT5xaM

Length: 80min 22sec (4822 seconds)

Published: Thu May 17 2018