칼 로저스의 상담장면 화와 상처

[Music] thank you this is the second interview with a young man who reports he has leukemia but is in a state of remission in his first interview he realized that the self he had at age seven was a very precious self and that social expectations caused him to lose it he also approached the feelings of anger he has felt about what has been done to this self and to him but he's not yet expressed his anger now the second session begins okay what do you want to start this morning I don't know I was thinking that when we did when we talked earlier about the the anger been thinking a great deal about that I've thought a lot about what they had to say about them right you know and I'm not sure that uh that I really don't want to be angry you know and I'm not sure if anger being angry now is a part of the process and I've got to do that but I'd like to I guess my I guess my mind uh academically or something you know and something other than emotion or whatever like would like to tell me that I'd like to uh to not be angry and to skip over that part if that's a part of the process you know but I'm not sure I can do that you know your mind says sort of oh cool it don't don't get into the strong emotion for sure it almost seems like that that whatever is happening in my environment or whatever happened in my environment is pulling me into again uh that kind of a trap that kind of a system that I don't particularly care you know if you know what I mean I think I get that the two your mind is taking the place of the system and saying no uh play it right do the right do the proper thing right but some other part of you saying yeah but there's some anger there for sure it's it's almost like in this country and I've always felt like this you only have about two options you know when you deal with race uh you either have to be you're either a racist or you're an anti-racist and it doesn't really seem to be the kind of thing that I you know I don't really care to be an anti-racist if you know what I mean anymore um and I don't want to be a reflection of any other of any other larger society at all for sure I think that I could probably trust that a lot better than than trusting what's happening or what has happened and um and when I think about that when I think about all of that you know things that we talked about I I think that um that's worse than a leukemia you know I know that may sound very strange or whatever but a lot of things have been strange you know since this time and and what has happened to me didn't just start when I found out that I you know was going to die kind of thing let me see if I understand that but you feel as though um what the culture and people and so on have done to you it's really caused you more suffering than the leukemia is that what you're saying I think so I think so and to some extent that that would that is my like for instance you know he I don't know what happened if I had died or if I if I will or whatever but I certainly know what's happening now and what happened you say and to some extent that kind of leukemia that kind of deterioration of the body is the same kind of thing that happened to my mind and um you know it's really what the culture did to you was give you a cancer of the Mind yeah I I I really I think I really want to say that and I really want to um and I believe it you know and I guess that part of me that's that's my culture and it's a part of the total is saying that it's not all that good to be angry you know because militancy is frowned upon or whatever you know I guess I'm using Miller militant in my sense because of its it's just traditionally you know when when blacks become angry they're they're not angry they're militant you know I know another label it's pretty sure for sure for sure yeah and like and there's nobody that I can put my finger on you know that person that started the whole thing that process you know because that would probably be a lot better for me you know than I probably would would try to to do to do that person in yeah if you can if you could pin it on one person then your rage would be justified and you could really get after that person but how you know but how do you blame somebody else is sick you know and I think that people that do that to other people or at least when it was done to me um they're really sick you know and here I am you know it trying to you know I don't know if it was forgiving I don't know if I'm sounding confused or whatever maybe you know but trying to accept their sickness you know and at the same time you know I really haven't had the opportunity to let anybody accept mine or maybe I haven't given it to them but yeah maybe you haven't given it to them right that's what I sense is going on now that you feel there's so many reasons why I really shouldn't express my anger I'll talk about all those reasons I don't know really you know if maybe I'll just be angry one day and maybe I'll really feel better or whatever you know and I when I when I when I smile I um you know I'm smiling but there's a lot of and I'm sure you know that there's a lot of anger there you know but it's not my nature to be angry thank you not my nature to be angry but I feel angry yeah um so I hear you explaining and explaining that uh that's not my nature to be angry it's just that I am angry right now for sure for sure and to try to be angry and unproductive but I don't know how you'd be angry in a productive way you know in terms of it's like now when I what when I respond to people you know if when you encounter people you know whether it's in the street uh whether it's in a professional situation or or whatever you know if people send out certain messages and no matter what they're saying or whatever there's certain kinds of messages that I'm getting you know it's saying that hey you know that isn't for me kind of thing you know and as before you know I'd like to work with that and write it like to try to communicate without alienating people or whatever but now you know I've been picking up saying you know like hey that's a bunch of crap you know don't don't don't tell me about the way that I should do it or or give me all that non-verbal stuff about um you're saying that I'm okay but by not verbally saying hey you know you're really not okay you know and I don't want to hear that kind of stuff anymore I get what you're saying and I also feel quite strongly that I want to say it's okay with me if you're angry here without it you know it's hard to know how to be here you know I'm not saying you have to be a decision it's okay with me [Music] I feel like being angry you can be angry you really believe it they're married [Music] not sure how to respond to that at all you know because a part of that anger is you know all the hurt and maybe if I'm maybe what's happening is that if I'm if I become angry and I'll really let it hang out that I really will see how hurt I am and um you know that just came to me as you were talking but you know maybe perhaps at a deeper level you're afraid of the hurt that you may experience if you let yourself experience the anger for sure really okay um I keep getting these blocks you know you know when I come to something like that you know because you know to me that's a revelation and I'm not really sure that uh risking being angry I guess or something like that you know losing control maybe yeah you know well I really do get that but this this realization that maybe what I'm most afraid of is the hurt that I might experience um make some more cautious about whether you should or you should or could really let go of the of the anger I really don't know I think that it's a Brisk right and it's you know I haven't really thought about that before and yeah it's uh I guess I would be and I remember I really would met openly that I'm hurt I I said that I've that I've been hurt and I think you know that I I feel I've been hurt but to really to show that you know sure and I guess to let yourself sort of experience that that I guess would be difficult yeah I don't know it's it it's as scary I think is the possibility of that I had before more than before about dying you know and maybe you know just I was really scared because of the symptoms you know of you know not being able to walk and not being able to see and and things like that you know and having to depend on somebody you know and for God's sake you know having to show somebody that I'm that I'm hurt and how you know how can I trust that to somebody you know um it was a horribly big risk yeah it is it seems to be getting bigger and bigger if we talk suppose I really exposed to somebody the fact that I'm deeply deeply hurt that in a sense would be comparable to having to be dependent on someone when you can't walk or something like that okay yeah I'd like to just to say it's my correct my condition that's a little way out of it isn't it but that isn't really acceptable to me now because I I I I feel that I feel like that I have to express that and I that hurt or whatever but you know I can say that you know and I know right down here you know they're I'm saying that and when I say it you know it kind of keeps something down here you know you're seeing it from here up for sure okay I don't know how to do that exactly whatever I feel like I don't drink a lot you know because I don't really want to experience that kind of you know alcohol to me is a depressing anyway and um you know that's about the only thing I really like to get out to really get out you know maybe saying you know like I love somebody I gave her myself I did the hell the best I could and it wasn't good enough you know and you know Demand on top of demand and everything like that you know it's just you know [ __ ] you know it's it's like that I'd like to be able uh and I said this yeah the other day or when I was talking to you that I'd like to be able to to say that yeah I was screwed over and I got hurt and everything else like that or whatever but it's in a almost in an admission in a way on another level of of of saying that they got the best of me you know and I really don't want you know I really don't want anybody historically to get have to have gotten the best of me but they did they did they beat the hell out of me if you don't want to say I really was defeated at times and yet that's the truth [Music] they did yeah you know being having it being all right to be defeated and be beaten and I don't know if there's any value and you know maybe to myself admitting it to myself or whatever you know you know I'm I'm really finding out I got a lot of hiccups in terms of in that line that I hadn't thought of before you know in terms of because I don't want to be beaten but I was you know because I think when you are hurt that's being beaten you know and I allowed myself to when I don't regret caring and I don't regret loving or whatever but you know like I'm like I'm like you know I'm a kid in a way I like to be loved too I like to be uh some reciprocity [Music] and I'm gonna start I think expecting that you know without being cold or anything like that but I have to you know start getting something back in return I would love to be mutual for sure for sure and I don't want to get in the situation like I'm not now you know where I'm afraid to to show anybody that I'm hurt you know I was scared to death terrified something really awful about showing letting anyone know that I'm hurt now I'm hurting it's you know it has something to do with being a man and has something to do with with the rice thing you know it has something to do with a relationship maybe the failure of a relationship a lot of things you know a father not being in the home of his children and I really feel like being a victim foreign you know I wanted to get out and stay out you know I would like to let it out yeah so maybe if you have any exorcism type powers or whatever that maybe you can just do that and then I'll be free of that you know because that's what it feels like it feels like there's something there you know that I really and I've identified it I think I've identified it you know because I know there's sometimes when there's just such a big lump in my throat you know and then I explain and give myself a lot of reasons why I shouldn't be feeling like that you know a big lump of hurt though [Music] and how to let that hurt come out in the open how to let it emerge and be out here instead of waiting locked him here right [Music] yeah you know I I never believe in cookbook answers to anything even when I cook I don't use a cookbook I just don't believe in it I think but um I'd really like to be able for somebody to tell me to you know maybe how to do that in about five minutes and be through with it so I can live the rest of my life in peace you know what I mean sure it'd be awfully nice if somebody gets in if you do this and this all your hurt will come out and it'll be gone forever for sure be great but no appreciate it [Music] I have a suspicion that maybe you know some things that I don't know no oh I'm not holding out on you [Music] yeah I I believe that I feels like I'm holding out on myself you know but hell you know [Music] I don't know it goes back to some of the things you're mentioning a man doesn't admit he's hurt a black man especially doesn't admit that he's been hurt by anything you know [Music] father doesn't admit he's been hurt by being away from his children it's just too many things that say no no no no don't let it out but inside there's the hurt yeah the phrase came to me a minute ago that if you could let that out if you could let that out it would be the voice of a victim you know that makes any sense or not yeah and I don't know what you know I don't know if I have any control over that you know of of what would happen you know it's like a friend of mine the other day was who helped me through my illness and everything he says you know when I encountered another person and that you know very intelligent sort that was talking a bunch of and like some garbage about feelings and and things like that that I really wanted to just uh you know I really saw the him the society the culture right in him you know and I really wanted to just to kind of deck him and that's something that's not uh my nature or whatever but like I just really wonder what just like to say yeah and my friend said you know one of these days he says if if you don't get it together or something he says not that if you don't get it together because one of these days You're Gonna really lose it you know you know what I mean it it's it's that I want to get rid of all that stuff that was done to me and not have to hear all that other stuff or to be able to deal with it in a very constructive kind of a way you know but still it grinds me because of all the other stuff that's happened to me and when I see other people doing it to other people or whatever it Grimes me it makes me angry you know and I would think that in those situations I've begun to kind of strike out you know or like you know protecting somebody else or fighting for somebody else or whatever and like I'm not sure what I did for myself though those years that all that happened to me or whatever and if I could cry and it happened be all right I was thinking that was just thinking if you could only cry yeah if it would be enough but that's that that's a trip you know that's a trip like um first place a man doesn't cry yeah for sure for sure that's the fact but I guess you're saying there are times when you have that lump in your throat and you sure as hell feel like crying for sure oh I don't know I don't know [Applause] I don't know maybe going to a movie of one of those old you know but crying for myself I'm not sure that uh just not sure that's going to be constructed you know I don't know you say you're not sure whether crying for yourself is constructive I feel also you're afraid of caring for yourself I may be I may be because if I feel like crying and I don't or whatever there's some things that are you know but you see that's a part of it too you know it's a you know and again I hate to keep using these things of you know we're just being so conditioned not to you know you know from a little thing of you know like oh you know big little little man or big boys or whatever don't cry and and probably your seven-year-old could cry yeah for sure I cried I remember crying but I cried alone I never let anybody see me cry you know I wonder how many people have seen me in the whole world it's kind of interesting you know I remember living with my ex-wife or whatever she cried all the time described getting up in the morning and you know just crying for crying you know I asked her sometimes about why she crying she just said so she just wanted to felt good I don't know if that was healthy or whatever but it probably was a lot more healthier than than what I did somebody's better than never letting anyone see you cry there's just so many other ways to do it you know that I've learned you know like working hard not thinking about it you know not thinking about it just saying that all the sorrow that you feel for yourself and for what's happened to you and all that that doesn't really exist it's just you're too busy to have any thoughts of that for sure but the sorrow is still there for sure yeah and I really don't know how to do and I really don't know how to deal with that I really didn't I really don't [Music] you know just really giving so much at yourself and it's just really crazy too much if you did cry what would some of the themes of that crying bee [Music] just you know all those you know hours that uh you know I spent away from my family that I gave up my family and didn't see my children grow you know I really wanted that to be frog some kind of a higher level some kind of a cause you know but not to have that uh to see anything any benefit that I did you know all of that worked I mean hours and hours and that's just incredible and I think that would be one you know I was saying damn it why in the hell did I spend so much time why did I spend so much time in it the leukemia the everything that happened to me or whatever would be probably deserved if it's one person life would have been changed or something you know and like and maybe that maybe it has or whatever but I think that I I don't trust that it was worth it you see yeah you invested a whole lot of carrying a whole lot of yourself and and you feel real thorough that maybe nothing came about and I'd also like to uh just kind of cry for my own father-in-law too was killed before I about six months before I got to leukemia I'd like to really tell him that I am you know that really loved him great deal [Music] so you're telling me in place of telling him maybe even speak to him I don't know but I think that you really would like to kill him I love you you know that I loved you well I really would you know the situation that we started out I was married and we married somebody out of a different race and we thought it out to the nail or whatever but but yet we loved each other and we fished together and he was great with me you know he had a very to other people a very cold way you know you know my God this is the way it's gonna be and so forth but I saw him when he was hurt too and um when he was killed in in 1975 in a hunting accident it just really took all of it you know because he he helped me to get try to get out of that stuff he's saying hey you know what are you doing you know do you what do you really want to do and at the time I wanted to you know to open my own restaurant or whatever and so he was going to help me finance that restaurant you know and so a week later he was killed one week and um and so we were getting so close but that I really never told him that hey Dan you know hey Dad I love you I really love it and we told each other I guess in some ways of whatever but it's not the same as saying you know saying hey I really love it I really can't feel real sad that you never gave him a straight message on that because he was traded it with me than a lot of people you know and to now to be taken away from all of that see because it's only been I don't know what eight months or so since c-stall communication with my family you know family that or my wife's family that I've loved and I'd cared for and that I buried my father-in-law and that was it that was the and then even the family began to take on those same things at the culture you know things began to fall apart forever for sure for sure you know and lately I don't know falling apart or at least by being able to see that uh that it really wasn't it wasn't true it wasn't real I wasn't getting I wasn't getting anything back I wasn't getting any nerves back you know you know smiles and polite kisses and things like that you know that is you know part of the hurt you know I'd rather for somebody to say you know I think you're a lousy SOB or whatever as opposed to saying hello dear how are you you know you know when the real message perhapses I think you're a lousy so be right you're right you know [Music] [Music] thank you yeah so there's you know there's a few things would be for you father-in-law you're really weep for him all right yeah I think I would you know and just maybe I still think that I really wish that I could you know just say hey you know you guys you really don't realize what you did to me you know because for a while I just you know saying well you know racist terrible blah blah blah but that doesn't say anything you know because it doesn't say how I really feel you know but they but it but they wouldn't understand it they wouldn't understand how a black person could be hurt you know because if you don't accept a person as human how can you how can you think about you know like the thing and a dog could be hurt or whatever you know people that don't have dogs and don't understand them you know is it you get some satisfaction or think you people don't realize how much you hurt me they might not be able to hear that message but you'd get some satisfaction out of out of expressing that out of letting letting yourself know letting others know that God I've been hurt him had been wounded I just don't think I could do that because I just don't think that I just don't trust you know I wouldn't do it because I just wouldn't want to give him the satisfaction you know it's like I feel like you know by saying you know maybe that is my feeling but I've I have too many times you know when you know opened up a little bit or whatever and someone says you know squash so there are probably loads of people you wouldn't dare open up to on that but I guess you're opening up to me to say yes but I have been really wounded badly by a lot of people for sure [Music] just made me think that you can understand that a little bit in terms of about Earth and that you know that I you know that I'm I'm a person and I'm a person and I don't really want that denied to me you know ever again mm-hmm you know that I could really get angry I don't know if you know I just that's not gonna happen to me you know in a way you know and I don't want to love anybody like I did my father-in-law again and for God's sake you know that's that's painful but I know that's terribly sick too that you have to love you have to continue to love people or whatever but at that time it was the only thing that was productive it was the only thing that was something that was you know this from talks about biophilic it was growth it was nourishing that was the only thing and that was just taken away from me and it was taken away from me just like crap you know it was just really strange you know so that's that's been a [Music] hurt and a shock and and makes you feel I can't risk myself loving somebody else like that because that might disappear somewhere other appreciate it for sure for sure I certainly don't want any more in-laws be they uh whatever color I'm not sure if one of it now you know and that's I think that's a part of it you know more so than than risking loving somebody just because of the deaf death I know is inevitable but it's that that other collection of things around it or whatever but you know it's it's crazy it's like it's crazy to love you know this is like loving a pet rock or something you know or something nothing you know your love goes out for me but nothing comes better right and I'm not so sure that that I want that it to work like that again you know and maybe by maybe saying that I don't know maybe you know calling say hey I really was hurt and everything like that or whatever maybe that would be a start or whatever but I just don't really trust but they really understand that totally really yes it took my wife who left with me for seven years you know after last maybe six seven months to understand that I was that I was hurt that I was that I was desperate I feel there's a little chance of anyone else really understanding you oh that sounds kind of it well it's a little chance for that group of people understanding me okay and I believe it I really believe it you know it would just it would be like me trying to um to understand or to to tell dick Nixon or something about my feelings and I just don't think he could relate to that I you know and I'm using and I'm really serious about that example because he's so far away from me and my reality and that family you know I found out it was so far away from me and my reality that you know it was insane you know it was really insane you know so I think one level I feel okay for loving them you feel okay for loving them I see but I don't feel okay for sharing any more with them and sharing that hurt is just you know and maybe sharing it with other people would be okay but I know I'm moving away from the other two you know it's really important to me right now and I don't know maybe I will I'm not rushing and it just seems to want to get out and jump out or whatever but you know you know it's clearly must have really gone my body really must have gone through some changes or whatever because you know something there is just keeping it keeping it down and I know all those reasons but I can't uh I can't seem to Muster that power to get it to get that out you know to really you know still too much locked in yeah for sure but it really it really helps you know um because it's it's just you know it's incredible you know this is the first time I've talked to anybody that you know that I haven't really been in control to some extent I've really given up a lot of control to your sort of letting things loose rather than especially keeping them under your control that's a new experience a very new experience for me very new experience and maybe I don't know if it's just not just it's a function function of that too you know or something you know foreign but all the others it's just [ __ ] and like I have been hurt and I really don't want to get involved anymore in terms of with people that can't return Love and can't accept people I just don't really want to get involved in anymore I'm sick and tired sick of it sounds like you're more accepting of yourself as a person who is vulnerable who's been hurt who is hurting and who wants love who does not all to be a one-way Street of giving love you want love back in return yeah and I want to be able to uh to feel and to and to cry and not to be afraid of crying and not to be afraid of I want to be able I'm going to work for that I really want to work for that I know I do you know I just have this thing uh you know if I trust the doctors I'd have them cut them cut me open and get that out you know but I don't probably be simpler to have an operation oh yeah yeah yeah but I but do you do you do you do you feel that you know like I really want to you know tell you how hurt I am but I'm not I can't tell you I understand that uh you're you're as it visualizes the moment you're walking all around the edge of that pit but you're not really letting yourself down into it so you're letting me know all about it but but not yet yeah for sure yeah don't know how to do that you know yeah I hear you saying I really want to get to that it'll have to be at my face I can't I can't force it I can't but I do want to get to it yeah because I want to get to it really fast you know because that's the only part of me right now that's really I really feel that sick it's really the cancer do you know that if I could eliminate that I could eliminate all of the cancer from my body I really believe it you know and I really blame I really blame the way I lived and the stress and everything else like that on on on the disease I really do you mean you blame the disease and all that stress right yeah for sure yeah for sure I do I do it's so extent I blame racism you know I just don't want to get caught up into that anymore you know and I want to continue to give but I don't I'm just not going to do it the way I did it before and uh I don't know yelling sometimes you know like when I came in here I was thinking about yelling you know those big long you know but I'm not sure that I want to do that you could try it you know I don't know you know that wouldn't be cultured standard standards stay here I mean not really I was really socialized yeah I was I learned all of it all of it and still in spite of yourself buy a good deal of it yeah yeah you really don't want to but still you find yeah you can't do the uncultured thing for sure it is standards I guess and uh that are really foreign to me but uh you know the the thing that you know that I've thought about you know and like you know it was like in terms of expressing my anger whatever comes out in terms of you know possible of obscenity you know you know like calling somebody a bunch of something or whatever with really you know I don't know what it would do but you know I'd really like to do that you know like I have to explain why I feel they've captured language quite guarded here I realized he was more profanity than you have but sure you know it's not because you know but I don't know it's just a part of that you know like I was just I'd like to just tell off the master yeah right right for sure oh my goodness I can't even do that so it's incredible I I don't know [Music] I'm getting more because things said no said yes right right I'm getting extremely warm um yeah maybe I'll be able to do it one day I guess [Music] baby I'll be able to do it I really haven't used but see when I get out of here I'll use a lot of profanity you know I don't you know just in terms of you know like I I think I did you know when I was really angry talking to my wife and things like that you know where I was just God damn it my things and like you know I was raised properly you know yeah but I think part of that would be a part of expressing my feelings and everything like that you know it wouldn't come out a nice polite language no I wouldn't it really wouldn't really win to my teachers that I had to the family that I had to a lot of my colleagues you know and others [Music] and but I don't know if I really want to tell them you know maybe it's just a part of just being proud and everything else like that but at least to myself at least I need to get it out and openly and yeah you may not tell it to them face to face but you need to get it out of yourself somehow some area really rotten and I really feel you know really screwed I really feel so badly the bastard really screwed me yeah I know are they good Academy you know it's just like uh being part I guess that has something to do with being it and I guess you know for this you just wipe them out you know if you don't get them with their bodies you do it in their mind you know like it happened you know it was it was real you know like you know to try to describe that hell to somebody is just the hardest thing you know but it's like you know just somebody knocking you down and somebody coming and stomping on you and spitting on you and everything like that and like it's just you know and just being feeling like garbage and I have a feeling that people have made me feel like garbage you know and like you know I'm sure that my friends would say you know God I had everything I didn't have everything I didn't have everything certainly didn't have that respect as a person but there were a lot of people who there they may or may not have beaten you physically treated you in a way that just trampled on you and beat you up and spit on you and made you a nobody a piece of garbage and it won't happen again not if I can help it [Music] because I'm really tired of fighting really tired of expending that kind of energy really it's just it's draining it's too draining in life you know I don't really know what's going to happen in terms of you know how I'm gonna do that you know get it out or or whatever but you know and I just don't really want to say you know that I'm hurt or whatever because that is that isn't even descriptive enough so for what really happened yeah say a word like that or several of the words you've used just isn't that all the same as feeling those feelings inside and really feeling them fully [Music] this really is uh I don't know if you saw the Exorcist but it's as it really is you know that oh you know I remember a scene in that movie where the girls just threw up this green slime you know and that's really it's that you know it's that bad you know it's it's you know it's that it's that bad because I know it I know it now you know and that's not a part of me and my body really wants to reject that but how to how to throw that up yeah how to vomit up that green slime that's been a part of your experience the name of just afraid that would look horrible you know or that I'd look horrible or whatever expressing that kind of anger that kind of that kind of hurt or whatever you wouldn't look civilized you wouldn't look cultured I don't I don't know you know yeah I don't really know but right now that more than getting mad out I think the the overriding thing is but I want to keep the at least the control to control that for fear of you see I don't really want to get sick again you know and like I think the lightest you know just by being weak by submitting to that kind of pain and [Music] um somehow bring back Maya you wonder about that whether if you if you let out all the and all the hell that you've experienced inside it might [Music] it might bring back your illness yeah that doesn't sound logical does it I know that okay thank you thank you very much oh god um [Music] laughs I don't know gotta you know I feel so beaten I was feeling beaten right now and I'm not sure why but that in the way that I gotta really got something to say and then just kicking it and I know I feel better but yeah I seem to be talking in circles does that sound like uh no not quiz it's more spirals I think you say getting very close you feel and you feel beaten right now as though if only something could come out you wouldn't feel beaten yeah [Music] I think that you know just babe that turn that almost turned me into something really in him I really almost let it turned me into something really into you the damn near me yeah [Music] so you see it but uh I don't want that to happen anymore at all [Music] not gonna do it to me again that's pretty clear I'm not know that doesn't help the other problem but at least I know that and I really do know that you know because I don't think anybody has a right to do that to anybody nobody teacher wife husband whatever and it really wasn't my fault either and and uh like I'm not the blameless I'm you know I'm not without any blame or whatever but you know you know just like somebody took a big goddamn tree and just rammed it up boom so you know hard to describe you know you know sticks and Rambles up your ass is that what you're saying I didn't say that is that what you meant that's what I meant okay that's what I wanted over there was catching your meanings correctly yeah for sure you know when you know that that probably would be painful it's that kind of pain that you've suffered [Music] just can't let it just I just can't let it happen again [Music] [Music] I am really uh [Music] I actually really don't know how on them tell you how badly I've been hurt you know I really don't it goes beyond words [Music] I think maybe I should attend to it a little bit more for God damn it you know just oh you're feeling some of that hurt now [Music] yeah I am I thinking about how about a whiner on a street it continues to drink does have a place to live you know I've seen so many people go by that kind of person you know disgusting don't want to work or whatever [Music] you know I really feel like there may be some reasons [Music] and I know one thing I'm gonna allow that person to be desperate because I'm thinking that probably people like that do things out of desperation and um [Music] because I know you know I never really had a drinking problem or anything like that but it's that kind of sensitivity that I've gotten from all of that it seems seems to me that you uh feeling that you know what it's like to be in desperation in the new what it could drive you through until maybe that's what's happened to some of them something like that for sure for sure and I think that I I think my heart goes out to people like that people that can't afford to to do this or whatever because see I had a lot of money and you know and all left and um but in a way I'm happier now you know [Music] but I really don't know not sure really where to go next but I know that I don't really want that kind of life anymore that I want to give I want to help and I want to talk to people or whatever and before I do that you know I want to get my thing together [Music] and a part of that is just maybe admitting you know and I guess maybe admitting that I'm hurt and showing and expressing my hurt or whatever we'll reaffirm the fact that I'm a person because a part of not I think showing that is you know putting myself up too high you know and that's what everybody you know that's what everything was because I don't hurt I'm I'm fine okay and just for a moment there I felt to really we're experiencing that too really feeling that stick shoved up your ass oh yeah you know when I you know you know how you're here natural reaction you know when you start feeling stuff like that or at least what I do I just kind of you know I gotta put it all in my out of my mind bring it down to a different level and I think that's what I'm doing I keep doing you know when I get to the point you get gotta bring it to a safe level get that close to the fifth and then pull the Halo let's share it is it [Music] all right to have everybody else to blame you know oh you're before your problem and instead of sharing some of that but I share it you know I I think I really I shared that you know I think what you're saying is I feel as though damn it everybody else is to blame my mind says oh you know you have you probably you have a part in it too but yeah but your feelings there and [Music] thank you and I guess I hurt myself I didn't other people maybe I can clarify that I let myself be here you know because I just gave too much you know you made yourself vulnerable sometimes really and that sometimes most of the time you know by being you know just by being by sharing by being there by giving you know and really loving because I do have that sense of a total you know that just I want to love that's my nature but you know I've really never been this beaten I never you know never have I want to say about you meaning you've never felt so much of being beaten as you do right now is that what you're saying well through this whole thing you know yeah just beating you know just really beating and I think that if I show you how much I've been beating or whatever you know like I'd probably you know become nothing in this chair you know just you know because you might actually disappear she really let you know her hurt and beaten and awfully for sure for sure you know I can tell you sometimes I mean it would just you know maybe blow you away you know [Music] really too much really it's really too much for me too much I feel like it I think you feel as though I've got about as far as I can go at this point if yeah really when I start smiling I know I am taking a drink of water for sure well you know but I'm being truthful about it anyway yeah yeah I feel I feel too uh you've walked around that pit of hurt and pain and beatness and you've you've felt some of it and but perhaps that's as far as you can go right at this moment [Music] even though you know there's more there you know that you're keeping some of it down and they know those things may be helpful to me yeah you see because I I can talk about this leukemia and all this stuff and everything like that like it's you know fascinating it's easier to talk about leukemia and the possibility of death and all that than it is to talk about all the hurt and awfulness that you've suffered [Music] I have to stop okay okay all right got about as far as you can go right okay foreign plated man he's been sufficiently hurt that he hides his real feelings very deeply but in this relationship the armor begins to crack just begins to crack he says this is the first time that he I've ever talked to anybody that I haven't really been in control so in this understanding climate he lets himself creep closer to the experiencing of his feelings that he's walking all around his own private slew of despond we find the upper layer is anger but further down in the Slime are the Unspeakable hurts and the feelings of being trumped on defeated and humiliated he gets so close to experiencing some of this that his Expressions become eloquent non-verbal communication oh real oh I've got to stop I feel that at that moment he put his foot into this dreaded pit but then he has to draw back I don't regret this I regard it as demonstrating the wisdom of the client he knows where the worst spots are and his experiencing he knows what he can tolerate he has to proceed at his own pace along the way we see how powerful metaphor is in the deeper ranges of psychotherapy metaphor is so much more expressive than an intellectual description the lump in his throat the ability to speak from up here and not from down there the goddamn tree stuck up his ass the green slime that must be vomited they all speak vividly of his feelings without naming those feelings from an intellectual and theoretical point of view there are bits that fascinate me is introjected self is his cultured self the quotes credit to his race it has little relation to the real feelings in which he could discover his real self another bit he reports very convincingly that if he led his feelings all out it would make him sick again but hearing those exact words spoken acceptantly by me makes them realize it's a ridiculous view to me that's a fascinating interchange there's another bit when I give him full permission to be as angry as he wishes that stops him completely then he can no longer avoid the fact that it's not his anger that he's afraid of but the hurting and vulnerable part of him then there's the morning which accompanies unexpressed love the love for his father-in-law but he was never able to communicate I think he gained from communicating it to me finally he makes it very clear that for him there are many more frightening aspects of his life than the prospect of death somehow this seems to contain a message for all of us as for me I felt very present in the relationship an understanding companion on this trip of exploration which seems so potentially dangerous to him I think it's a good example of how I work with an articulate client foreign [Music] [Music]

Channel: 맑은샘심리상담연구소

Views: 3,872

Keywords: 칼로저스, 로저스, 상다므, 심리상담, 인간중심, 인간중심이론, 로저스기법, 상담사, 심리상담사, 심리상담가

Id: GkmruvnVlHk

Length: 66min 54sec (4014 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 21 2023