“Richard Gadd is PSYCHOTIC” Baby Reindeer’s ‘Real’ Martha Fiona Harvey

this show is incredible baby reindeer you got absolutely obsessed a beef curtain I did not move everybody is talking about baby reindeer now fans are trying to find the real people behind the story cuz it does depict real life events flowing up so quickly and so fast all around the world that I I didn't expect it first of all why have you decided to go public when did you know that you were the person being depicted he says the whole thing started because he felt sorry for you you ever been to prison what do you feel about Richard C you think he's un did you ever turn up at his house would you accept that someone who did that would be very obsessive about something here's the thing I don't know the truth you do have done the barrel of that camera to people who still doubt you what do you say to them one of the first things that viewers of baby reindeer are told by Netflix is that this is a true story not based on a true story or inspired by real events but a true story it's emphatic about that the show is writer comedian Richard Gad even plays the lead role himself many millions of people across the world have now seen it it's one of the biggest Netflix shows of the year and I've watched it all it's a riveting emotionally intense drama worthy of all the critical plaudits it's now receiving viewers are gripped by the Apparently real life struggle of a fledgling standard comedian who is mercilessly stalked by an older woman Martha in a three-year onslaught of harassment Martha bombards him with tens of thousands of lurd emails leaving hundreds of voicemails lurking outside his house attacking his partner even confronting his family and friends now Richard Gad said that he and Netflix had gone to Such Great Lengths to disguise Martha's real identity that she wouldn't even recognize herself but that wasn't true many people did recognize her very quickly and the woman at the center of the story was outed online within hours simply by cross referencing her posts on social media with those that were used in the show other details about character be a striking unavoidable similarity with the real woman now accused of being The Craze stalker Martha the show raises uncomfortable questions about the line between fact and fiction fantasy and reality another innocent man in the television industry has been falsely accused a sexual assault based on one of the storylines of m drama well F Harvey is the woman outed as the real Martha of baby reinder she's chosen to confirm her identity because she wants to have a right of reply and so in her first television interview she joins me now in the studio well uh thank you for joining me Fiona um first of all why have you decided to go public the internet sleuth stried me down and hounded me and gave me death threats so it wasn't really a choice I was forced into this situation what do you hope to achieve in this interview I came on your show because you're a veteran broadcaster I think you'll give me a fair hearing um you were persecuted yourself not so long ago um so that's why I've chosen this show have you watched the drama not at all I've heard about the court scene about the jail sentences and all this sort of stuff you really haven't watched any of it I haven't watched any of it you're not curious to h no I think I'd be sick um it's taken over enough of my life I find it quite obscene I find it horrifying misogynistic some of the death threats have been really terrible online people phoning me up you know it's it's been absolutely horrendous I wouldn't give Credence to something like that and it's not really my kind of drama what when did you know that you were the person being depicted in this five years ago on BBC breaking news um I saw uh Mr G had written a play for the Edinburgh festival and he was hiding he was holding up um placards MP's wife stalker and all of this and he called it baby Ria that's all I knew and I thought well I've only met this guy two or three times um I don't know him him um and left it at that I should have possibly injuncted at that stage and when did you know that Netflix were doing something uh two weeks ago I had just moved flat so it was two weeks ago past Saturday and how did you hear um I saw in BBC breaking news that he'd sold to Netflix and both he and this character Martha this Jessica actress seemed to be promoting mercilessly did you think then it was you that they were depicted I thought it was me that they were depicting 5 years ago because of this MP's wife stalker article that had been a number done on me by the the Sunday Mail 25 years ago when I was going for Donald J's parliamentary seat so I knew I had a big idea then um The Daily Mail and approached me on the Wednesday um two weeks ago so sort of two weeks tomorrow um but two weeks ago if you see what I mean um and um told me that I was getting death threats online that I've been out is mar Martha the were Tik Tok videos and were you online at all cuz you were before but are you these days online h i I'm I've come off Facebook as of yesterday um are you on X what used to be Twitter no I'm not you had an account yeah that's right um years and years ago um I'm scared to Google up BBC breaking news I'm SC certainly scared to Google up the daily mail um in case I am on it in some bizarre circus that moment you realized it was you m that they were depicting from what you were reading the sluth as you say had found your tweets they compared some of the phraseology they done the mass and they worked out this was you that was being depicted how did that make you feel absolutely horrendous um absolutely horrendous um I couldn't believe he'd done that and so long after first meeting you know we're talking 10 12 years ago um really horrendous I didn't know who to trust I was told by The Daily Mail don't trust those bleep bleeps in Scotland H whereas I found John dingal of the Daily Record completely wonderful actually he's acted with total courtesy um I couldn't believe this had happened I want to play a little clip this is just some of the reaction to baby reindeer from members of the public she ends up becoming this the crazi stalker I ever seen in my life and this is all a true story this is all a true story yeah um and they've found the real woman online so I assume in the actual thing they've obviously given her a different name it's a a different woman but you know what I find they always they always managed to find a similar looking woman and the build tends to be the same I have a theory about this though I feel like he's done it on purpose cuz he knew that people would find her and he wants to make her life hell a bit when you hear that what do you think the final guy on there I think is correct I think he always wanted this to come out to persecute someone to take attention away from him and this rape allegation and I just generally think he's got extreme psychiatric problems I mean there's no doubt he has problems I mean if you watch the given that he's written it about himself the if you watch the the whole thing as I did all five six episodes whatever it is um he has a lot of problems he's quite open about that the the question I guess which will come to is how much of the way he depicts you is true and your position is that it's just not factual it's a work of fiction it's a work of hyperball as I've V said and um there are two true facts in that his name is Richard Gad and he worked as a jobbing Barman on benefits um in the Holy arms and we met two or three times that those are the only well let's go back to let's go through some of these things so you first met him I mean the show shows you coming in to a London pub you've just know the pub and he's working behind the bar Richard Gad and he offers you a cup of tea is that what happened no that's not correct um he didn't offer me a cup of tea nobody gets anything free from the holy arms um I was in for a meal with um a drink of lemonade and I was very very hungry I'm diabetic so very hungry so that that's and did you talk to him um he interrupted a conversation there was another Barm in there and I said oh you're Scottish and basically Comm and dear the conversation I you know I was talking to somebody it's pretty rude to interrupt so he seemed to be say me with me from that moment onwards I mean just speaking to I've never met you before but you do look and sound very similar to the actress in the drum I haven't seen the actress we're both Scottish we've both got dark hair um she's considerably younger than me I think she's about 18 years younger than me how old are you you that Mom I'm 58 I'm a year younger than you and I think Martha Jessica the actress is about 40 38 40 it says in the show that you proceeded to return to the same Pub time and again but you never paid for a drink I don't drink alcohol and did you pay for anything that you had lemonade or soft drink would he give you free drinks no absolutely not this is sort of a depiction of me as a popper who wouldn't stand around or stand a drink like it's nonsense it says that you told Richard Gad that he looked like a baby reindeer toy you once had as a child hence the name of the show yeah is that true I I appear I appear to have written most of the show in my sleep um I just um the did you have a baby reindeer I had a toy reindeer that's true he shaved his head that bit is true and there were reindeers in the shs it was Christmas time or something it was a joke so I have inadvertently pay the name of the show right but that is true that's true that's that's a true fact um whilst bantering with you Richard Gad told you he'd like to hang your curtains is that true this I think was a hly joke about curtains and a lot of sexual inuendo he did say that yeah okay is it true that you caught Richard gar looking through your window after he followed you home one night false false you never saw him at your house um I didn't see him at my house I think it would be impossible to look through a window did anyone else ever see him there no so as far as you were concerned he never turned up at your place K but the but the the Netflix show has him doing that yes I believe so I believe so I've been told that but that c orally didn't happen that categorically didn't happen in the course of your relationship with Richard Gad you send him 41,000 emails 350 voice messages 744 tweets 48 Facebook messages and 106 letters that's simply not true um if somebody was sending somebody 41,000 emails or something they'd be doing how many a day lots well it' be obsessively yeah absolutely no absolutely no true no none of that's true I don't think I sent him anything you never sent him anything no I think I think there may have been a couple of emails exchanging but that was it just jokey bans or emails Netflix Netflix have said that these details are uh the real ones that this is this is this completely incorrect so you're denying sending anything to him there may have been a couple of emails text messages no Facebook messages no did you tweet him um I may have done years and years ago you actually tweeted him numerous times no it wasn't numerous it was about 18 tweets there or 14 tweet quite a lot to someone who's not that well known but we were all friends you know we it was banter right but it establishes you were contacted that's in public yes I mean this did you write some letters no I think when I found when I saw the rape interview that's actually incorrect what I said there when I when I saw that in the guardian I said what a shame it's not your fault something like that one later one later one later so you you would say you only sent him a handful of emails you never texted him no you tweeted him 18 times you think you never sent a Facebook message Ah that's and you wrote him one letter yeah so why have they got all these details here which are supportive who is they Netflix who has sent these correct so I'm sorry who has sent all this stuff to him I have no idea I think he's probably made it up himself I mean you could prove I guess quite easily it wasn't you correct because it'd all be on your computer yeah correct that's right would you be happy for someone to look at that yeah yeah I mean I you know yeah what what do you have what te technology do you use right what technology do I use a very very old smartphone just now because the other one packed up a week before moving that's it because they're all sent from an iPhone yes so and they believe it wasn't actually an iPhone ever being used meaning what meaning that someone was hiding the fact that they were actually not using they were pretending it was from an iPhone I don't really understand that well people can mask where they're sending stuff from okay I right I'm not technology with kid of the year I wasn't doing that either I mean obviously when you make such an emphatic denial of the central point of The Story You're basically accusing both him but also Netflix of lying about it I am and that's that's pretty defamatory it's not defamatory if it's true no no it's defamatory that they've been to you oh I'm sorry yes I misunderstood there yes exactly exactly I don't see how anyone could do 41,000 emails and all this kind of stuff you know I don't know how much you know about technology but are you aware that if it was you sending those emails it would be very easy for the police for example to work out exactly where they come from the IP address would yes I understand that and it stays on forever but the point is this was years and years ago we were congratulating him but it would all it would all still be there yes yes understand that yeah and if you sent 41,000 emails is just a lot of rubbish yes so that should be stored there well they'd all be there yeah I mean he's got them he's not got 41,000 emails that's over a year to you there only there's only handful yeah I mean how long would that take someone to type up how many do you think you sent him a handful like what does that mean how many H uh less than 10 10 emails not 41,000 right there's a massive dispar between the I agree I agree I mean if it's not you that sent all this then clearly Martha cannot be you yes Martha canot be me because there are a number of allegations that have been put to me by journalists um that are simply not true there's a whole play it's not just the emails there's a sexual assault in the canal there's but but if if if the police looked at this and if you sue for example then this will go to a court of law and and then on Discovery people will look into all this the phone company will be asked about evidence of all the text messages the internet providers will provide all the backup for the emails Facebook will be asked about the Facebook messages and so on so all of this would come out in a court case in disclosure yes and you're prepared to do that yes because I didn't write him the emails who do you think did I have no idea I think he probably made them up himself I've have no idea 41,000 emails yeah I mean would you would you accept that someone who did that would be very obsessive about someone yes I mean that's a lot of emails and why why now why didn't he go to the police at the time or this sort of doesn't make sense I mean the fact that Netflix have said this is based on reality this is a true story that Martha did the real life Martha person they base this on who Richard Gad has written about is the person that sent these and he has the evidence to prove it what you're saying is that that proves you cannot be Martha yes and I would like to see Netflix's evidence for that which would come out in disclosed as well and you're 100% sure it's not you yeah absolutely it goes on to say that you Heckle Richard gab when he was appearing in his standup shows did you ever do that no never no it's not did you ever attend his stand up I think I went to one it was a long long time ago and you never shouted out or anything why would I do that no no no I mean do you ever shout out at comedy shows I don't no no I don't generally go to comedy shows you never heckled him no did you ever attack Richard gad's girlfriend because you were jealous no I don't think he had a girlfriend I think he's a homosexual but no I have never been to his house or attacked any girlfriend or anything like that there are lots of scenes where Martha is sitting outside his house all day for many days s sitting in a bus stop sitting out there walking around and would occasionally shout at him did you ever do that no I haven't seen the show uh but I I'm getting I yes I got all the court allegations um the trial allegations I'm going to come to that but on that point did you ever turn up at his house no I don't know I don't know where he lived no absolutely not so whoever's doing all this is somebody completely different yeah this is a fictional character hyperball exaggeration this is a fic based of his imagination say it's based on a real person who's they Netflix well Netflix and Richard Netflix are about as mad as Richard Gad if they're saying that it's absolutely not correct did you ever contact Richard gad's parents and threat them no that allegation was put to me by journalists no never happened no there's one key point in the drama that uh has Martha's character pleading guilty to intimidating Richard Gad in court and sentenced to N9 months prison time uh let's watch you are charged with the stalking of Mr Donald dun between the dates of the 14th of August 2015 and the 22nd of March 2017 are you guilty or not guilty guilty you were charged with the harassment of Gerald Dunn and Ellena Dunn between the dates of the 6th of June 2016 and the 22nd of March 2017 are you you guilty or not guilty guilty a little read now again there is obviously a resemblance between do you think so hard flattering well I I don't mean to Value you or not value you I just think there is a resemblance you know having met you and you both speak Scottish people um but the fundamental point of this is did you did you take part in that did you go to jail did you have a tri of course not of course not have you ever been to prison no have you ever been charged with a criminal offense no never no nothing nothing so that scene is completely invent that's completely false and I don't think the actress sounds like me I mean people compare me to lorine Kelly but I look nothing like lorine Kelly we all happen to have dark hair and we're Scottish you know I think the actress is from glaso I think but I'm not sure and which part of Scotland are you from I'm from the central belt um a slightly different accent it's slightly different a Scott would know the difference a Scott would know the difference a Glasgow accent is very different but that's a fundamental Point here because if they basically have a key point in their drama which they say is a true story which involves you admitting to intimidating Richard Gad and getting a 9mon prison sentence and that is completely untrue that's completely untrue very very defamatory to me um very career damaging and I wanted to rebut that completely on this show I'm not a stalker I've not been to jail I've not got in Junctions inexs this is just complete nonsense but it's I mean you'll know yourself if you're charged with a criminal offense it will go um fine bigger fine whatever very few people go to jail you have a police record nowadays yeah have you ever changed your name H my my my surname was double barrel what was it h m Harvey so M Harvey when i m i r Harvey when I got um when the parents got divorced I changed it to Harvey I just dropped so your your maiden then when you were bers yeah that's right M yes M Harvey so that's quite an unusual name yeah so if you'd ever received a criminal conviction for anything it would be on police files yes and what you're saying is you've never been even charged with an offense no let alone the one that they yes I mean this is um N9 and a half months in jail is is pretty serious did Netflix ever contact you no no one's contacted me never never did Richard Gad tell you what he was doing no I had worked it out when I saw the festival baby reindeer advert on BBC I just happened to see that I was looking up the news for something else because that's where he I just happened to see that well that's where he started telling the story and that's got that got picked up I was shocked I was shocked and I think Martha then was a bar stew I seem to recall reading that it wasn't an actress or a person it was a bar St let let me just show a little clip this is from Lorraine actually who you just compared yourself to but let's take a look at this do this is Richard Gad on Lorraine I just thought it was the right time to sort of try and bring a Nuance conversation to something I think the human human condition is extremely uh complicated and and I felt like a lot of Art and TV in this day and age had maybe simplified it too much it's not a villain and victim storyline I think you're left with a lot more than that it's kind of two lost people what's your response to that um I think they're milking it for all it's worth for the money she doesn't even sound Scottish in that interview her accent seems to be varying well well she's not she's English she's an actress I was going to say she's it sounds more Lang to me yes she's English she's an actress she she's putting on The Voice exctly they're milking it for all their worth um it was the right time for to abuse someone on all over social media and all over you know basically somebody who's not not from lovey land not from theater Land just Abus me all over the newspapers they're happy with themselves what do you feel about Richard Gad I think he's I think he's psychotic and I think that anyone going along being in that play and doing this to somebody um I I I found it I find the behavior outrageous he says the whole thing started because he felt sorry for you and that's why he befriended you your sta said that to me in the H the waiting room and this is a lot of nonsense I've got lots of friends what did you talk to him about it was just Holly arms banter it was like what what kind of what you going to do with your life or you know career stuff you know sort of and I thought he was a standup show but is it possible that is it possible he was under the impression that he felt sorry for you no I never got that impression at all I I got the impression that he was all out for himself wanted to H um sort of control that bar very very um um inarticulate very full of himself he I should never have gone in that bar do you wish you never had yes absolutely absolutely how long did you know him for Richard G two three months two three months at maximum he only worked there on certain days and did you always go on the days you work there no I've been in there in different days having food have other people from the pub contacted you nobody's contacted me no one about this I thought apart from the media the mainstream media and stalkers on social media he says Richard G he didn't see you as a villain but as somebody who is unwell and needs help yeah well he maybe should look a bit closer to home um to himself as someone who needs help what do you think he's mentally unwell yes I think he always was whether there was a an alleged rape or or whether that rape was real or conceived in his mind I think that would make him more that's a rape that he says happened it was a a television uh person we don't know who it was uh somebody was falsely linked with it who turns out to have nothing to do with it but he it's a very graphic scene in the drama where he is brutally raped uh after a lot of drugs are taken um and he's kind of very he appears to be in the drama very self-reflective about himself that he's no Angel he's not perfect he's made lots of mistakes and he didn't treat you in his eyes as a villain like he says there somebody he felt that you were both slightly lost souls um I didn't know the rape scene was in um the play until this morning somebody's daughter had watched it and told me about it so I was surprised once again well not surprised actually I'm I'm really surprised anything he does nowadays um um he seems to have written a couple of other shows about this alleged rape then this one and um we've had no apologies from Netflix or him or nothing I mean for someone who says he feels sorry for me I've had no apology and I have this Martha character seems to smash up a bar um sexually assaulted him in a canal been to prison um there are a number of other allegations there and none of that is true that's not true he says that um people shouldn't try to find out the identity of the real people M drama um do you give him credit for that M he actually tweeted this people no I love have worked with andm including Shan FY who was the man wrongly accused of of being the rapist are I'm fairly getting caught up in speculation please don't speculate on who any of the real life people could be that's not the point of our show lots of love Richard Pier I'm sorry I can't see that the date of that tweet I can't actually see that was literally like a few days after it was released right I saw the headline it was all over BBC breaking news two weekends ago for 4 days um with Martha promoting herself the character Martha Jessica promoting herself and him saying don't speculate wow that's a bit rich now isn't it the fans do speculate well it was almost instantaneous you were Tracked Down incredibly quickly yeah the Wednesday the Daily Mail get in touch with me so that was all over BBC breaking news Friday Saturday Sunday and Monday I mean the reason that internet slows to find out it was you was they found the tweets that you sent him throughout 2014 um 10th of May for example 2014 Richard Gad did you get my recorded delivery letter sent to the theater sent to arrive bank holiday Monday so you sent him a letter then that that was that um sorry you were to hear you were rate something like that uh 12th of June the same year your tweets cheer me up your timeline is good 23rd of September my curtains need hung badly we were trying to to encourage him because with this first show or something like that a long time ago you on the 18th of December please go and see Richard Gad show it's well written and neotic the filmed bum shots of the best fantastic ass it was a joke it was a joke trying to encourage him nothing negative though about it there no because I didn't think he was a complete psychopath who was going to attack me in this way but the show did involve you this this show here not that show there that made no reference to this was a previous show it made no reference to you that show which one the one you're talking about yes yes yeah yes yes so you know it's funny this is coming up now my my view is it's all about the money ER the Martha barsto Edinburgh festival thing wasn't making any money he'd failed as a comedian he'd failed as an actor and therefore let's make some money sell this to Netflix um I think anyone in their right mind you had a group of guys on there in their 20s is they don't believe it can ask you what was your upbringing like uh I was going to say standard Scottish singing started Scottish Scottish Countryside happy I me happy yeah yeah impoverished but um middle class up upbringing if you like any siblings I have a sister my mother worked incredibly hard my parents got divorced when I was nine but she worked like a Trojan are either parents still alive my mother is yeah and how does she feel about I've not talked to her about it I'm I'm hoping she'll have just seen the Scottish headlines and that's it she's not an internet freak or anything like that she has no idea what's happened to you um she she will know uh bit and she was very very angry with Laura Walker for doing the original article when I went for Parliament you told your mother about it um no and that may seem strange but I don't want to worry her I'll tell her I've been on the show when it ears I don't want to worry her let me ask you the son reported an interview with Laura Ray who you've referenced who accused you of inappropriate behavior whilst you work with her now the background of this is that you came into contact with the late Glasgow MP Jimmy Ray who died age 78 in 2013 and his solicor wife Laura who was 62 when she was a former labor party member um Mrs Ray said that she gave uh abedine University law graduate you you did graduate from a yes with a law degree uh a traine role legal firm mcfa Lawrence partnership in 1997 is that true it was called ill and Ill Lawrence I think she forgets the name of her own firm it was called ill and Ill Lawrence but but that's all true she gave you a traine job she lured me away from another firm she head Hunted Me From Another firm because she needed someone to do employment law and I'm pretty good at employment law so she said that she had to sack you days later because you were completely incapable of behaving herself I walked her stuff were really really rude to me um most people half the labor party had been up there at one point or another and walked she then said that following you leaving uh obviously very quickly that you then harassed her you were then then known as Fiona M obviously as you said mure Harvey um Mrs Ray said she was so frightened she issued workers at her firm with personal alarms um you were then served an interim interdict to stop you from contacting the lawyer or her politician husband record she messed up I know and I've still to speak to David about that and the author of that Daily Record article she didn't she messed up because I went into the court of session the high court in Edinburgh to get Countrywide interdicts an interdict at an injunction in Scotland and England because I was going to move to London anyway um she mucked up um soor you went into court to get them yourself yes there was no need against Laura Walker and Jimmy Ray but she said one was served on you yeah that's that's nonsense an inter checked out and again that there will be a public record yeah absolutely and saying that it was never served H what we think she served the initial documents and then she no um she she served the initial documents and then there was no hearing she H it wasn't minuted for a hearing I said I would defend but she marked that up too she didn't fill up her second initial document she then didn't minut it for decree in absence so there is no interim interdict why why would two people who have no contact with each other at all um Laura Ray and Richard Gad why would they both portray you as a very unpleasant I don't know why Richard Gad has but Laura Walker it certainly because I was going for parliamentary selection but two different you get my point two different people but Richard Gat has Googled that Richard G Gad has used that as that's in the drama is when they find out that you had previously harassed this family I haven't harassed that family I didn't harass that family and also I worked for in 1987 88 the Parliamentary selection wasn't until 2000 he Googled up the article because I knew he'd done that I never went back to the holy arms he was spreading it around Camden that that same that I was a stalker you you've never married I no have have you had relationship with with men I mean if you don't mind me being Pur I'm heterosexual yeah how many how many relationships have you had I told the staff that relationships were out of bounds a lot more than Richard Gad has I would say he had a lot quite a few right well I don't know if he had a lot I don't know I mean I I don't know how obviously now you're going here's my point now you're going public then the men that you've dated over the years will see this yeah they'll be aware of it they'll hear you I don't think they if your next question is going to be on my story them I think the answer is going to be no well I just wonder how how do you think they would view you I think they are going to think what I think about Richard Gad he's completely off his head and I'm not worried about the current one because he's a lawyer and he do you currently have a boyfriend he's a lawyer yeah in London doesn't matter where he is you know i' rather no no I but how long have you five years five years you've been in a five year relationship so I don't so so what does he think I don't want to drag and he thinks this is horrendous all of my lawyer friends do all of my professional friends do other people do and people are being really sympathetic uh people I don't know are saying things like are you getting hounded in the street you know people are being really really nice I mean after who does know about this you know here's the thing I don't know the truth you do and you've been emphatic in the number of denials you're making here that's right but many of those things that I've put to you can be be proven you're talking about emails and an email Trail thing you know all of that you're obsessed with sorry I don't mean to be hor I'm not obsess with anything yeah you you've gone on at length for a good 10 minutes about the emails well only because the emails because the last number well huge number and voice messages the voice messages he's kept apparently and it and there is he maybe taping me in the Hol arms I don't know if he's got any voicemails but if he has 350 voice messages and it's you it doesn't mean the drama is true and but is it possible he's got 350 voice I doubt that very much I just don't think so you doubt it yeah I doubt it I mean unless taping me I mean if you've never really contacted him if he's got he could been taping me in the Holy arms though but if he's got 350 coin if these are on his phone yeah it doesn't matter what whether they're on a phone tablet whatever they're on I've not coincided I'm curious why would there even be a possibility of him having that number of voice messages from me because he's crazy he wants to make this up I mean not phoned the guy I don't have his number you're not sure that he hasn't got those I think he the only explanation for having a voicemail from me would be um taping me in the Holy arms that's the only place with all that you left messages on his phone that's the other explanation which just didn't happen but you can't be sure I can't be sure because I didn't have his number right you just said you weren't sure if these were your voice messages yeah what I mean is somebody could be taping me you know somebody could have taped me in the Holy arms on adct a phone or something here's my point to you is these are easily provable things yeah he's either got them or he hasn't yeah yeah I mean be asking for disclosure of that but and the emails obviously there'll be an IP address and that if that if that leads to you yeah I mean my point is though even if that were true I didn't lunge at him across the bar I didn't sexually Assa him in a canal I didn't go to jail I understand but here's my point to you here's my point to you f and I'm not trying to catch you out not trying to trap you I'm genuinely fascinated by this story I watched the drama I saw them declare it at the start as a true story and I've seen the interviews since with all various people and it's clearly a very complex situation this but unless I'm mishearing you I think what you're saying is there is a possibility that you send a lot of emails I didn't see but but it doesn't mean that you did the more serious things yeah I am not saying at all that I sent loads of emails um you maybe misheard play back the interview what I'm saying is a handful at most if if I did congratulations about the show but if he does have 350 voice messages I know that he doesn't and it's your voice he doesn't I neverone can now hear your voice unless he was taping me in the Holy arms or or he just kept them on his phone I didn't phone him you sound unconvinced butly no so it's your point that you are you challenging him to reveal this evidence no I I just would I would challenge him to leave me alone cuz you're calling him a liar and you're calling Netflix accomplish I didn't use those words I said this the the story and the play the the Netflix show is not true no but if they say that you sent 41,000 emails well they voice M completely wrong all 744 completely wrong so they are lying they are lying yes okay yeah in effect he is lying they are lying and in order for a dramatization to be true it's got to be you know the only defenses are Veritas I'm telling the truth um or um the whole drama needs to be true they have build it as a true story so has he and it's not it's blatantly not even if the email thing was true the rest is not so why would you qualify that sorry why would I watch why would you suddenly qualify even if it's true about the emails I'm just playing devil's advocate here right but when you say even if the emails were true I didn't sent 41 it doesn't it doesn't mean the more serious stuff is let me rephrase that that's really what you're saying right I mean I don't want to force you into saying anything that's not actually true but it seems to me that it may be possible that you have communicated all this stuff with him but that doesn't mean you did the more serious things it doesn't mean true it doesn't mean you attacked his girlfriend it doesn't mean you smashed up a bar it doesn't mean you did any of those things or threatened anybody it just yes you had a relationship with this guy and you did contact him a lot I knew this guy I didn't contact him a lot I've never said that in this interview at all no no but I but interestingly for me as an interviewer and I'm just trying to get to the truth you understand no no I I honestly not try see that it's your show I'm not trying top you up I'm just trying to get I see that he he has put his version out there and the world has watched it absolutely millions and millions of people around the world have had Richard gad's version and I'm simply saying to you that you have you have a chance here Fiona I think and take this anywhere you want but you have a chance here to concede that some of these things might be possible but that doesn't mean the more serious things happen I mean what I'm saying is because the more serious stuff we know is serious right if you were yeah if you were in the jail or something if you were a violence stalker or if you'd had a previous situation where you got Mis inter into it which we know was served on you no it was no sorry to interrupt there no she has repeatedly maintained this over 25 years I checked with the sheriff Clark another lawyer check with the sheriff Clark we think that the previous scenario happened she does not have an interim interdict I think she's quite wrong okay if the sheriff Clark can produce that and say she didn't mck up and minuted for decree why was I not served and Inter if Rich Gad is watching this what's your message to him leave me alone please um get a life get a proper job I am horrified at what you've done and you will categorically be taking legal action absolutely against both him and Netflix you said your boyfriend's a lawyer so this can be done by he's not doing it no I'm not doing it somebody else is going have you instructed lawyers H we've instructed them in part but we want to explore all the options out there there are a number of number of people to sue we can't all be in 10 quotes all at once so who else are you planning to see uh the Del mail anyone that that's saying this is true and harassing me and um that kind of thing we we we have not had time to do everything if if if the investigation if you Sue and there's Discovery and it turns out that 41,000 emails did come from a device belonging to you how would you feel about that I wouldn't be suing if I thought there were 41,000 emails out there you understand how easy it is to find them I understand completely and that if they did exist and you're categoric that they didn't it would it would obviously it wouldn't blow the whole case it wouldn't blow the case against Netflix because and it wouldn't blow the case against him you might well making out it's a true story you see what I mean I'm back to my original position I understand understand and I understand that it's obviously put your life into a very difficult position it's very and and their Central claim that they made all this effort not to lead to you being identified I don't think stands water I don't think it stands water to me it's pretty I could have listen I've been a journalist 40 years I could have discovered it was you in about 10 minutes yeah once side want yes I agree I discovered it was me when I saw the the BBC breaking news baby reindeer show at the Edinburgh Festival when I was Googling up just the news that day or the weather or something and this came up and it was he was holding up a placard or a newspaper article MP's wife stalker all you need to do is Google that then I saw the name of the show and I thought bloody H what's up to and um I tried to get a friend to go see the show because she was based in Edinburgh but she was in holiday and nobody I know had seen that show um either um so I was really shocked I was very upset for two three days then the general plan of action among my close friends was look just you know let him get on with things he's not going to be that damaging you don't really know him this will go away did you last have any contact with him famous last words years ago years years ago no um I I left the holy arms think go back and he was calling me a stalker and things and there were various things happening in the Holy arms you know other women were warning me about them and everything yeah about him about him and others with bad conduct in relation to the 106 letters that he and Netflix say you sent well here's my point you you you've admitted sending him one and that presumably was a handwritten letter could could it be um are you thinking I was maybe mistaken that I maybe did no no no I'm just saying if if we accept that the one that you admit to sending is in your own hand writing he has another 105 letters in your nonsense are you prepared for him to show that one he's maybe forged things I mean people people Forge a lot of things you think he he could successfully write A5 that is to well I certainly didn't no you you admit to sending one my point is if it turns out the other 105 are exactly the same handwriting wouldn't that point to would obviously bring in handwriting experts I didn't do it no S one letter yeah I'm sorry I haven't sent that guy 106 letters do you still email people what what do you mean you send emails yeah yeah do you have the same email address you've always had um I I had six at one point why and because I like to keep people on different phones and different emails different maybe four I think it's four to six yeah it's easier easier so you have some for your utilities some for close friends whatever yeah the six is a lot is it I don't know anybody with six email addresses you don't know many people then I know I know people with four six emails address was it four or six I can't remember probably six probably six how many do you use today I had four phones um I've got one today but I only email select friends and you had you have four phones yeah um two broke they were very very old one was brand new and broke and it's still to be returned to the shop I like keeping people on separate phones as well and maybe that makes me a Maniac or a stalker or something but if you've got somebody on about your electricity bill or somebody on about some work or something it's it's nice to keep it separate you know so um I didn't do that in Scotland you didn't have to but the volume of course um do you think if somebody did send someone yeah 41,000 emails 3 I think that's excessive obviously yeah would that to you would that mean someone's stalking someone well yes and no I mean could be you you know could be your wife it could be you you know you maybe sending emails every day about the kids or something like that I don't know 41,000 is a lot that's how many a day my Mass isn't working this time of night um but it's a lot it's a lot yeah that doesn't necessarily mean there's stalking some they could be great friends you know they could have been friends for 50 years or something was he ever your friend Richard G no no staff asked me that as well no I don't think so you had a lot of banter with him yeah but banter is one thing Scottish banter down here is quite kind of welcome you know it's not really it's not really fun city is it it's not jokey city were you ever in love with him yes is that a serious question yeah no no it's not a question of by his own admission he has said that he led you on at times and he clearly was the brush off he asked me to sleep with him with a big green spot in his face one day I said no I'm sorry I'm not interested he asked do what he asked me to sleep with him he said would I like my curtains fixed and I laughed and he said that's a euphemism do you want me to come home with you and I said I've got a boyfriend I gave him the brush off big well big time I think you know subtly subtly so but the bottom line is I think this is behind him no I don't fancy him I don't fancy little boys without jobs that sounds awful that sounds really really callous but you know people will watch this who've watched the Netflix series and like me they they they will be trying to work out where the truth lies it seems to me that either you're innocent in the way that you've claimed to be and you've been horribly defamed here I think at the very least the Netflix duty of care and Richard G's duty of care has been a spectacular failure I agree right regardless of anything else regardless of your culpability of anything the duty of care has failed because people identified you incredibly quickly so they've made this what they say is a true story and everyone's worked out it's you and the picture they paint is of a a completely crazed stalker ruining a man's life orbe it he accepts that some of his behavior may have led the person on can I ask a question do you happen to know how much he's made made out of this Netflix thing I would imagine several million pounds yes I I would say three to four million a lawyer I know well thought he was a we knowbody and he suggested 750 to 100,000 I said no I think you're looking more about 3 or four million and I think the more he publicizes um it goes up um you know according to how how much it's streamed I don't know I don't know what the contract they signed I think he's done bloody well out of Defending you resent that um I don't resent any Scott getting on this is not what this is about but he's effectively making money out of what he says he's making money out of he you stalking him yeah he's making money out of untrue facts he's been the ultimate misogynist the actress was also not appealing for calm he was appealing for calm I think he did that to sort of stir things up more um I think they knew exactly what they were doing and I think your staff were talking about Martha the equal or something like this it's just completely crating it's completely crazy well your staff put that to me and put to me should I write a book about this well I've got other things to do but say it's a possibility you got a la degree yeah law degree so you're obviously very bright how did you do a school I've got a photographic memory I was top of the school apart from the science um was B High I went to the science um person got the most marks cuz you can get 99% how many O and A Levels did you did you end up with I got six hires uh two x sy's they were all sort of most were aand ones which was when when the aand one was top of the thing I was and with your law degree what did what grade did you get not bad I mean oh all right you know uh I just did an ordinary degree and then a diploma in legal practice what what grades did you gete um all right grades all right grades but you know I went out part partying we I didn't do own his degree so you know just B standard grade what degre did you you did a law degree or I did a law degree with 13 subjects 13 law subjects so it wasn't the CPE or anything uh which I also have from down here but uh it was 13 law subjects this is from abedine University yeah yeah yeah so what degree did you end up with a law degree and then I did a politics degree after that politics women studies um I did substantially better than that CU I did more work you know I think in our day when you went to University you didn't there's a reason you say you got a photographic memory but what what grades did you get all right grades I mean not top of the year or anything you get when you do a degree you get a yeah oh you're asking me what marks I got for 13 subjects I can't remember wait no you end up with it did you get a first class degree oh no well I said I didn't do an honors degree I wanted to go out and practice so it was an ordinary degree I did right but you can't remember how you did I did all right I didn't do top of the year but you're the other graduates at the same time they'd all remember you some of them remember me one of them did incredibly well he's a high court judge uh some people didn't do well I think the general idea in the ' 80s was we didn't really do much work that sounds absolutely awful but you know that was kind of the 80s if it came to it would you would you take a li detector test yeah yeah possibly yeah I would need to consult other lawyers about that if we set one up you would do it a lie to the test for what you know the police as you know the police use them um they're just an indication they use them for mass murder and things like that well no actually they use them in many cases just to determine whether they think someone they don't use them that much I know you've done the programs of women Behind Bars and things I I I confess I think I've just seen one but it's not used that much I'll be honest with you since you mentioned it I've I've done a lot of crime interviews with people who've committed way worse offens than what you've been accused of yeah I haven't you know way way more mass murderers serial killers and so on and it you know they're all I've got to say almost all of them are very good liars could it be people will be asking this watching you thinking either she's genuinely innocent here or she's a terrible liar who is capable of all of these things I don't lie and um I I tell White Lies if I absolutely have to like when my 94 yearold ex- neighbor was dying we all knew she was dying and I'd found her in the hospital the night before and I lied and said you know have a good sleep everything's going to be fine and that you know you know so I'll tell a white lie like that when somebody clearly needed some rest and how many how many times did you meet Richard G don't know what would you guess five six maybe five six times that's it yeah in your life yeah yeah how do you think it's come to this if that's all true I think he wanted to make money I think he picked on somebody there was a backstory there with that stalker article out there right so stalking's in Vogue going to prison invol in Vogue um what do writer say or English lecturers or something write about what you know and to people who are watching look down the barrel of that camera to people who are watching this and who still doubt you what do you say to them I think you should watch this I think you should look at the number of articles that Richard Gad and Jessica the actress have done and how Netflix and he have promoted this um I think you should look at um him saying I am some sort of mental case and judge for yourselves because I can't change your mind on this um I can just rebut what has been said you need to make up your own mind but my mind is made up he's a liar and my friends say likewise F Harvey thank you very much thank you very much thanks for having me

Channel: Piers Morgan Uncensored

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Id: mK-isQXd_Qw

Length: 54min 44sec (3284 seconds)

Published: Thu May 09 2024