אברהם יהושע השל מתראיין לקרל שטרן ב1972 - כתוביות בעברית

what is the greatest concern in the Bible injustice to the fellow man brought what is the greatest dream of the prophets and of the Bible peace the only men in antiquity no philosopher in Greece no philosopher anywhere in the world in India and China was capable of dreaming even there will be a time and war will abolish there will be peace this is the message of the prophets the Interfaith Broadcasting Commission in cooperation with the Jewish Theological Seminary of America presents Abraham Joshua Heschel remembered a tribute to the distinguished philosopher theologian and social activist on the twentieth anniversary of his death in life dr. Hester was Ralph Simon professor of Jewish ethics and mysticism at Jewish Theological Seminary opening today's program is seminary chancellor is ma Schorsch in conversation with Cornel West professor of religion and head of african-american studies at Princeton University he is also the author of the newly published volume race matters they will introduce NBC News May and call Stern's 1972 interview with dr. Heschel dr. George Cornell it is wonderful to be with you again when you were a member of unions faculty we were neighbors our faculties met together we exchanged thoughts many times and it's good to see you as well though is more were those are some wonderful years at Union Theological Seminary in Jewish Theological Seminary our assignment is to bring a an interview of dr. Heschel that was shown 20 years ago up to date when it was shown dr. Hirschl had died it was filmed but a few weeks before his death and when it was shown we heard a voice from the grave many things have changed since nineteen seventy-three maybe you would reflect with me on some of the changes in jewish-christian relations since 73 yes I think the major feature of the last 20 years has been a degree to which is very difficult to hear the kind of prophetic voices that's represented in the native brahim Joshua Heschel and what I mean by that is that we've come out of a conservative period it's a period in which the kind of compassion and mercy and this stress on justice that we see in both the work as well as the life of dr. Heschel is has been pushed more and more to the margins and therefore the voices that one often hears or at least takes notice of fail to be as prophetic as what we hear in a dr. issue we become more strident more militant we've given up the moral high ground is that what you're saying I think so I think that when we talk about a moral language the language of empathy and a language of sympathy genuine attempts to stay in contact with the humanity of other people and to identify with their frustrations and anxieties I think those kinds of efforts are not being made in the way in which dr. hecha would have liked us to do and you write in your book race matters a lot about the nihilism of young blacks in the inner-city the struggle is to imbue their lives with love with meaning with hope I think Heschel spoke that language his conception of God was a God was one of a God who cared who was filled with sympathy who needed the assistance of humanity yes I mean there's a wonderful phrase that dr. Hirschl wrote where he says that our eyes have been poisoned to see only the generalities of race rather than the uniqueness of the human face that's a wonderful quote it's an eye disease exactly and it resonates with Ralph Ellison's powerful novel of 1952 Invisible Man the difficulty of actually keeping track with not just a humanity but the individuality of black people and therefore being able to tolerate such levels of social misery among poor black people not just black people I should say but Brown as well and white poor as well but the black poor many ways symbolize this sense of being invisible and their pain and their hurt being invisible and I think dr. Hirschl was still alive he would be targeting that social misery in the same way that he struggled with Martin Luther King jr. in the civil rights movement the same way he brought a moral critique to bear on u.s. foreign policy without demonizing the country without demonizing elites but just trying to speak candidly citizen to citizen about a moral feeling that he felt deeply about I think one of the things that's changed in the last 20 years is the proliferation of departments of African Studies America African American Studies on the campus I see this as a positive development I believe that a society Accords ultimate respect to the culture of a minority by including that culture in its curriculum now I think you're absolutely right I think one of the consequences of white supremacy in all of its manifestations has in fact been the degradation of things African and therefore there's a need in the name of the pursuit of truth and a disclosing of facts to simply get at the record regarding black human product products by creativity and black originality but it needs to be done I think in a very serious rigorous and unconvincing way and what I mean by that is not simply inform a celebration not in the form of romanticizing and idealizing but simply being true to the record and there's no doubt that there has been white supremacist biases in western scholarship that hide and conceal black achievement and black accomplishment and I think we have to always hold to the highest standards of scholarly excellence when we take seriously black doings and black sufferings like any other human doings and human sufferings Cornell you speak like professors of Jewish Studies when they first gained entree into the university the fight of the Jewish minority was the same one you have written with deep understanding of Jewish history I think you personify the kind of excellence that you demand I would like to throw out the thought that one of the ways to repair some of the erosion in black Jewish ties might be to offer more team taught courses on university campuses bringing together professors of African American Studies and Jewish Studies I think that's a very good idea one of the things that my good friend rabbi failed when he was at Princeton one of the things that he and I attempted to do was to initiate and inaugurate series of lectures about Jewish history in Jewish culture at our third world Center at Princeton and I would lecture on african-american history and african-american culture at the Hillel Society it facilitates the kind of critical exchange dialogue that helps not only minimize tension and friction but also misunderstandings and misrepresentations because I think not enough people of African descent recognize the degree to which Jews going all the way back to the Byzantine going all the way back to medieval period have been degraded have been denigrated the history of the pogroms the assaults the attacks not just Judy Assad not just the Holocaust but the larger backdrop of the various ways in which Jews have been dehumanized and similarly so American Jews must like all Americans face a very tragic and ugly facts of the American past in present regard did 400 244 years of chattel slavery at 75 years of institutional terrorism including the luncheon to Jim and Jane crow ISM and steel presently the various struggles to what to gain for its class citizenship we need to know these histories not that in knowing these histories our differences are automatically overcome but at least we can bring to the dialogue a knowledge and an empathy and I think that's the best that we fall and find out human beings can do we need to be compassionate in our disagreements and acknowledge where we do in fact agree and I think it's so important that when you look in the history of this country has been black people has been Jewish people who have been two of the fundamental pillars for what I'd call progressive politics compassionate politics the kind of politics represented in the life and work of dr. Hinshaw dr. heschel f wrote about the prophets and in this interview suggests the call Stern that his life was changed by the prophets he moved from the ivory tower onto the political arena that combination of scholarship with moral passion it seems to me holds out a kind of leadership that is hard to find these days and you're absolutely right I think that when one looks at the one owning say career I'll say the vocation of a prophet like dr. Heschel you see that he is an intellectual force for good he is a political force for good and he is an existential force for good by a substantial force what I mean is that in the way he treats others in personal and interpersonal relations he exemplifies that kind of love and mercy that he then translates into the larger political and intellectual arenas and it is rare to find such a figure I think again when you think of a Martin King and the dr. heschel both both their presence is gracing this country at the same time one thing's my god the country must be doing something right to help either produce Oh - - welcome as dr. Hirschl from Germany - welcome to allow them to flourish and and their their examples their voices are deeply needed in our time well I think dr. heschel was decisively influenced also by the Vai more experienced the ascendancy of the Nazis in vimar he spoke often about the isolation of the Jews there was no one to call there's a wonderful comment by D Trujillo Bonhoeffer that if we don't cry for the Jews we have no right to sing Gregorian chants and I believe that Heschel learned that lesson in vimar and when he came to this country he was determined not to be deaf to the cries of other oppressed people and he took to the streets I think there's a profound lesson there because in our own time I think there are members of the black community I think there are members of the Jewish community who often feel as if they have no reliable allies at all and one once one reaches a point in which one feels as if one has been isolated and one is solely on one's own one it generates a clothes rank mentality it reinforces an in celerity a parochialism or provincialism and this usually brings out the worst in our communities but it's true the Jewish community and black communities often times it seems if there are reasons that the reasons to feel that way because we wonder whether we do have reliable allies and we have to I think look this in the face very Heschel like and say lo and behold we understand the rage we understand the sense of isolation but we in fact must always look for reliable allies sometimes they're there and you haven't acknowledged them sometimes they're there on the way and not in place yet but you must continually search or those kind of connections which are inextricably linked to this search for meaning so you will not allow any kind of mean-spiritedness and cold-heartedness to have the last word even as we suffer tough the tough core now let me press you how are you going to help the black underclass find meaning how will you lift them out of their nihilism what can the society do I think there's two is two roots though one is a very personal interpersonal root which means that black people we ourselves have to love ourselves more thoroughly the issue of self-love is a fundamental issue because we're dealing with white supremacy bombardment against black humanity and black intelligence and black beauty every day and so the issue of self-love which will take the form of black trust black support of one another because black children are need of love care and concern on the other hand there is a responsibility for the larger society in terms of resources the levels of poverty are simply intolerable and black poverty is not solely an issue for black people black poverty is an issue of America 20% of our children as a whole live in poverty but 51% of black children under six live in poverty so on the one hand the black community has its responsibility on the other hand a larger society has its responsibilities the parallels between the Jewish and the black experience under oppression just jump out at me this quest for self-respect this struggle to define oneself on the basis of one's own values and models is so much part of the Emancipation experience of modern Jews this is what brings me back to the idea that I threw out a few moments ago that it's necessary for us to study each other's emancipation experience absolutely right you're absolutely right I think one fundamental difference here and I think we can both learn from one in this regard is that our doing the history of the vicious persecution of Jews there was a deep commitment to sustaining autonomous organization and an independent institution so under the adverse circumstances you could still transmit to the next generation a sense of the tradition and I think what we have in black America are in fact organizations a black church of course and black civic associations but as is not as developed and therefore there's levels of disorganization especially among the black working poor and very poor that make it very difficult to transmit the best of the traditions of black for mothers and black for fathers and this is something that myself and many many others are devoted to addressing how does one transmit the best of a tradition of resistance and struggle to a younger generation let's bear that in mind as we now turn to the words of dr. Heschel thank you Cornel thank you so very much I brought these books from home they're only a small portion of the books you've written what was there in your in your life especially your early life that would give you the thoughts to fill so many books a hard work training in the good environment I was very fortunate in having lived as a child in as a young boy in an environment where there were many people I could revere people concerned with problems of inner life spirituality of integrity people who have shown great compassion and understanding for other people your life itself has not been an easy life you escaped from Poland just before the Nazis came in what what experiences of life have found their way into these books I would say again my background my early upbringing I would criticize my early upbringing as a deficient and mum respect and very rich in another respect deficient in what is know be called the art of relaxation sports are not a sporting type unfortunately but they reach in moments of exaltation this enabled me to stand a little bit above the circumstances of life into teacher perspective from which I could see the world self to speak from the higher point of view in other words say I was trained as a child to live a life or to strive to live a life which is compatible with the mystery and marble of human existence and learning about it what is the longing about is the role of learning there all of learning was decisive first of all the supreme value ascribed to learning and learning being a source of inspiration learning being the greatest adventure learning being a source of joy in fact learning for the purpose of discovering of the importance of self discipline the realization namely that the life without discipline was not worth living perhaps a life without surprise is not worth living either you recently told an interview an interviewer that what keeps me alive is my ability to be surprised what what has surprised you lately everything this may be my weakness you know you quoted once a statement from the book effectors yes this there's nothing new Under the Sun and I disagree with it sleep I would say there's nothing stale Under the Sun except human beings become stale I try not to be stale and everything is new no two moments I like and a personal things the two moments are like us never lived this secret of it is a very profound principle in philosophy that I would call the center for the unique do you know that among a billion faces in this world nor two faces are like the other day a person complained to me he went to the Metropolitan Art Museum he was bewildered because no two paintings looked alike one of the most arresting titles of your many books would be this one God in search of man is God in search of man did the paradox in fact if God would consult me I would tell him Linda she'll see he doesn't he's too wise to consult me I would say why do you care about man the biggest message of the Bible of the prophets of Israel is that God takes men seriously you remember he hated Adam Adam and Eve they immediately failed he was disappointed but he kept them alive then they gave birth to two boys very nice boys I'm sure they got some very good excellent education in a private school on a public school I'm not sure but certainly in a good environment they didn't live in the slums you know and you know what wrong brother did to another God should have been disgusted he said no I will keep the human species alive I'm waiting maybe someday there will be a righteous generation and throughout history seen by the Bible there's one this acquaintance for God after another he's still waiting waiting waiting for mankind which will live by justice and compression he's in search of me now let me say to you they're essentially three points one garden states are meant to me the family of all of the BA Hebrew Bible - it expresses the idea of Judea about the position of men in the universe that is probably important if God is so concerned about men which surprises me again why shouldn't God be concerned know about the let us say a cosmic energy over the Oscar notice a techniques he's interested about widows and orphans in Jerusalem my lord if we were to a square which is beneath your dignity you gather the universe you'd be concerned about the poor by the disadvantaged yes he is men is very important to God and a third point the third point would be the nature of village the nature of religion is not just a long Lincoln feeling of man searching for God I think that God is more in search of men and medicine search of God it doesn't gives us no rest we have for generations for decades for centuries try to refute the existence of God as if it didn't exist and in spite of everything man is still searching man is still waiting many still longing man has discovered and he's discovering that the men learn without God is like a toaster about it overhead it isn't but man is searching also because if you'll forgive me a certain there's a certain absurdity a certain purpose Nisour perhaps undiscoverable of purpose let me get cite an example 10 days before Martin Luther King was killed you as a good friend of his addressed a convention of the rabbinical assembly and you said Martin Luther King is a sign that God has not forsaken the United States of America and that 10 days later he was dead in the most cruel and the / purposeless fashion that's it's that sort of question that challenges faith how do you explain that we understand the Bible properly and very few people do they study the Bible properly we atomized the Bible with tear to pieces instead of immersing in the thoughts of the by you discover that God shares life with men and he gets given men freedom a very questionable gift and the most outstanding gift men has men can do anything when they the first son of the first couple decided to murder his brother they did what he pleased and God did not interfere but that that raises the question oh if you're saying that if God were to control every aspect of man's life that would not be living then that raises the question why pray to God then if God is not going to interfere if God is not going to intervene if God is not going to help what is the role of Prayer first of all let us not misunderstand the nature afraid particularly in Jewish tradition the primary purpose of Prayer is not to make requests the primary purpose of prayer is to praise to sing to chant because the essence of prayer the song in men cannot live without a song prayer may not save us but player mia make us worthy of being saved players not requesting there is a partnership of God man God needs our help I would define men as a divine need God is in need of men in history he cannot do the job alone because he gave us freedom in the whole hope of mists of Messianic Redemption depends on God has undone man we must help him in by each deed we are carry out we either retired or accelerate the coming of redemption we are all in history is tremendous I mean are you below absurdity yes plays a major role in fact it's the greatest challenge to existence not only to religion the greatest challenge to all activities to political activity to economic activity to all idea of progress in the encounter with absurdity and if I were to be asked what is the meaning of God a difficult question to answer one sentence well I'll ask you what is the meaning of God I would have to use a number of sentences run the certainty that there is a meaning beyond a mystery that holiness conquers absurdity and without holiness we will sink in absurdity where is holiness is it what's in the Bible is that where one finds holiness I don't believe in monopoly I think God loves all men and there's given many nations has given all men an awareness of his greatness and of his love and God is to be found in many hearts all over the world not limited to one nation at the one people to other religion but I have to understand again to come back to the problem of uniqueness what has the Hebrew Bible given us in particular that not to be found anywhere else I would say that particular appreciation of the greatness of man of men's tremendous potential t as a partner of God this idea to me is not to be found anywhere else but is that potential of being fulfilled we talked a moment ago about Martin Luther King you've been active in the civil rights movement since I guess the early 60s you marched at that Selma with dr. King I think it's fair to say though that you've written about the monstrosity of inequality I think that's the expression you use ah I think it's fair to say that in the past few years of the American community has hardened its attitude toward equality in jobs housing schools and so on what were how is that carrying out a potential you know a they have to tell you that life is a drama they have to tell you that we are not in the midst of an automatic progressive development of humanity their ups and downs at this very moment there's a down there's a depression there is a renewal of prejudice which is a poison as a person committed the biblical faith I would say what keeps humanity alive is the certainty that we have a father then I also have to remember that God is either the father of all men or of no me and the the idea of judging a person terms of the black or brown white is an eye disease you've also said you're an optimist against your better judgment yeah but you're still an optimist I'm still about you first gained prominence as a scholar writing about the prophets is it possible for a modern prophet to come to us was that just pre-biblical again mr. stern your questions are very rich very complex are very meaningful and since time is so limited and precious I will have to give you short answers and only partial answers the idea of a prophet is complex and consists about one of two things or the message of substance or the prophet has to say of some extraordinary claim to an experience which is uh next to other man let us ignore the second let us say take the first but so great about the message of the Prophet about the prophet of the kacct I would say the Prophet is a man who is able to hold God and men in one thought at one time at all times this is her great and this is her mouth which means that whatever I do to men I did God and I heard the human being like injured God no dear thought their message continues to be so relevant today that I invented the saved I had this experience there's many distinguished philosophers and we got together discuss social contemporary problems that the ultimate source of hope for all of us whether it was the Protestant or Catholic or secular philosopher but suddenly I reliance on a hope by the prophets of Israel therefore I would say the spirit of the Prophet the message of the Prophet is very much alive the kind of men who combined the very deep love very powerful descent painful dubuque with unwavering hope the Prophet as a witness to the great mystery or to what I would call meaning beyond the mystery namely God could still be alive and should serve as an example the time are you talking about a rebirth of that of their knowledge in the mouths of others or is that not to be known in identification may make a personal statement here I've written a book of the prophets how the large book spent many years and then really this book changed my life cost early on my life my gay love was learning study and the place where I prefer to live was my study in books and writing and thinking I've learned from the prophets they have to be involved in the affairs of men the affairs of suffering men and I would like to say that one of the saddest things about contemporary life in America is that the prophets are unknown then the complete decline of the Bible in an American education no one knows the prophets there are countless intellectuals who barely gave authorities or literature I've never had the prophets really know been touched by them and this I'm sorry to say is a little bit of a disaster the great examples you need today are the ancient prophets of Israel I say that this book on the prophet to tell all changed my life and I think that anybody believed the Prophet will discover number one a depository of the most disturbing people who've ever lived yeah it's not easy to do you mean and they were abrasive and you say the circulation of the stabbing a giving me a bad conscience well you are you a prophet you've been the abrasive at times particularly concerning the Vietnam War you said a great deal about that I wouldn t accept this praise because it's enough for me to say that I am a descendant of the prophets which is an old Jewish statement it is there and claimed almost arrogant enough to say that I am a descendant of the prophets what is called banana ve so let us hope and pray that I'm worthy of being a descendant of the time you said during the height of the agitation over the Vietnam War that they it was one of the it was the great religious issue what made the Vietnam War a religious issue discuss it's a religious issue what does God demand of us primarily justice and compassion what does he condemned above all murder killing innocent people how can I pray and I have on my conscience the awareness that I am co responsible for the death of innocent people in Vietnam in a free society some are guilty all are responsible at this time one year ago I was covering a trial of priests and nuns the beragon trial in Harrisburg Pennsylvania prospective jurors one after another when being questioned by the judge and lawyers said they thought it was wrong for clergymen to be involved in politics of their job is to administer the spiritual needs why don't you stick to spiritual needs it's a very good statement in fact it's such a good state thing that if the prophets were alive they would be already sent to jail by these jurors because the prophets mixed into social political issues and frankly I would say that God seems to be a non religious person because if you read the words of God in the Bible he always makes us in politics and in social issues that is the wonder of it the the torment that man has the problem-solving machine that he is that you think is I detect is the essence of being of living a human life yet you see and that is to know but you see a run of the great sins of contemporary education is to give the impression you can solve all problems or there are no problems actually the greatness of men is that he faces problems I would judge a person by how many D problems he's concerned with is an illness is not the quest of religion though to give one a sense of inner peace you have to understand the meaning of inner peace let me give you her cell example of a person who has no problems let me give you a Dometic fictitious picture here stands a man and I tell you this is a man who has no problems do you know why is immediate because a man has problems and they're more complicated the more the richer he is the deeper his problems this is our distinction to have problems to face problems life is the challenge no justice satisfaction and the calamity of our time is to choose life to pleasure only I'm not against pleasure but the greatness of life is experienced in facing a challenge rather than just having satisfaction I would be frightened if I were to be ruled by a person who is satisfied so it has the answers to everything in a very deep sense religion has two things first of all it's an answer to the ultimate problems for human existence and it all says another sight it is a challenge Dorland it is living in this polarity of these two points so there are so many religions that say come to us and we and you will have no problem we will solve your problems here here's the Word of God he he will solve your problem you don't you don't accept that no I don't accept it because it contradicts everything I have learned about life from experience from philosophy from history from the Bible if I look at the Bible God is full of he made any created man he killed that man and his own will others on freedom and man is a problem table look at the Bible God is always wrestling with the problem man even God has problems this is a deep ingredient of existence problems and the tragedy of our education today is we are giving such easy solutions become place and have peace of mind everything is fine no wrestling is the issue facing the challenge is the issue would it be a better world if we were all of one religion no would it be less strife no as I can judge that right the judge God's will from history it seems to be the will of God that there would be more than one religion I think it's a very marvelous thing to realize you know if I were to ask the question whether example I think I'll give you before whether the Metropolitan Museum should try to introduce that all paintings should look alike or I should like to suggest that all human face should look alike but how would you respond to my proposal hmmm I would be against it I'm glad we agree I think also though in your writings you've indicated that even where one religion has been adopted in the state there's no evidence that that has brought any happiness or any new high points of religious feeling isn't that correct yes I think it is the will of God that they should be religious pluralism one of the most important things in life a human being faces it's not only to know how to build a machine but also how to overcome envy it's an irrational destructive power in every man what does the school do about the secular school nothing so I'm disappointed make an educational system are no levels as proved to be a terrible disappointment religious schools it's a new problem I only wish I could tell you the religious school are doing a perfect job I would say religious school deserve support because they are doing partly a good job at least teach people some of the great classical ideas of the religious tradition and we cannot live without religious tradition because take away the religious tradition what is left you know what is left recon temporal literature and give the contemporary literature with novels as a source of inspiration for young people until they get the Psalms Naaman reads you're not allowed to read the Psalms in the school how can you how can you be human without being able without being able to pray we need religious education the problem begins whether religious education is in such a splendid State it isn't but a separate problem I think that they aid to religious schools in some form that would not contradict the Constitution on regulations put in the long run through a blessing the original I fear supporting religious schools well because the religion will determine its power at that time a power we were afraid of that would compete with the state with a difficulty by now religions are so weak in America they're little to be afraid of religious power therefore I would definitely say aid for religious schools in some form would be a great contribution you believe that organized religion is in a weakened condition I think so about three of them to put the blame not only on the religious people and religious establishment but also on the people who belong to this establishment of the members on the plane people you see actually the role of religion has declined as a result of countless assault for more directions so what is the outcome in the past 100 years ago 200 years ago a parent we had a gifted boy had a great dream his son should be a rabbi Minister pleased today a man with a gifted boy like him to be a doctor of medicine a banker a lawyer so the gifted boys are being kept away by many people blame the people but the religious leaders are to blame there was a decline in Italy just thinking allegiance passion a detachment from the real problems let me say to you the following the central problem in the Bible is not God love men the Bible is a book about men rather than men's book about God and the great problem is hard to answer to respond to the human situation and somehow religion religious leaders often become petrified in their own traditions and understanding and couldn't relate to the burning issues of the day how is it responding today how is responding today not too well a great many religious leaders have given up faith altogether they are deluding themselves as I told you before self-deception is a major passion in human life they gave many people who use the word God and unbelieving it may give you an example polymer the most popular definition of God common in America today was developed by a great Protestant theologian God is the ground of being so everybody's ready to accept that why not ground of being causes me know ha let there be Atlanta being tongue calling me and I'm ready to accept it it's meaningless in there a God who is above the ground maybe God is the source of qualms and I'm describing my conscience maybe God is a God of demands yet this is God not the ground of being Oh result is we have a religious institutions without the religious belief we have a wave of non-belief I have suddenly discovered there William James was not right when it spoke about it was right by the way I'm saying kitty Couture eclis there is a will to believe but there's today I built a disbelief and that will is very powerful that this very day our young people are craving for some deeper meaning our young people of craving for a religious outlook but they get this stone and norgrad well what you've said though is that there's something more than relevance needed that's an overused expression you use the term in your writings validity religion must have validity what makes a religion valid know if it is true if it is corresponds to real urgencies and questions and problems let me give you an a an example of what I mean Italy before our entire civilization today revolves around one idea interest or need and we are taught the greatest thing in life is to satisfied one's needs and interests actually our way of living devolves around one principle self-interest self-interest there's nothing else about self in test this is a fallacy according to religion and religion is right valid because if everything is self intentioned there isn't allowed can you imagine humanity without law if love is only self-interest then life is a fake pretends you're telling me of the nature of man not the nature of God aren't you yes the nature of God is that meant you'd have ends not only needs the difference between an animal enter man is not the needs animals needs when it needs to but men in addition to need has to have ends goals to slifer the great task of religion is to teach men how to convert ends into needs but what we do instead is to convert needs into ends and needs are unreliable as a standard because some needs authentic some needs are false look at advertisements advertisement is trying to evoke another needs which we are not a need of can you imagine a day will come and I will feel all of a sudden I couldn't live without color television television is not enough has to be a color television I will sell I will give away the last penny I have because advertisements convinced me that without color television I couldn't survive right and the million other things I have to have at least a summer home in a winter home because without a winter harness I'm not a respectable citizen it's Lee I read it in an advertisement so it becomes a need the legend says no men's distinction is to live by ends and for ends and goals and not only satisfy needs I am NOT taking satisfaction of need that's unnecessary function of men we have to satisfy our authentic needs it's very important we are against asceticism we love life but there also ends and goes to be served this is a difference between animal and men we ask an average man what are you goals in life he'll tell you life insurance Cadillac and color television you wrote a volume entitled who is man you dealt with some of these questions is there anything else you want to add to your definition oh the out of pain and anguish about that book because I consider men to be left without friends in the world wherever I look books I read it's full of contempt for the nature of men the naked ape men is all violent men is essential an animal America spends hundreds of millions of dollars to study the behavior of animal loads understand men because essentially men is an animal I'm asking you what a bigger insult is it to men to say that many essentially a beast except he has the ability to make make tools so to speak my definition of an ape is ape is a human being without the ability to speak just as relative to say that man is a and then another the ability to speak no what I try to do in this book is to counter to fight the ongoing dehumanization of men which I see at every step every room unless I feel that my life is accountable to him who is much greater than I am I could not always control my me leanings I could not only be I would not only be ready for self-sacrifice number one number two my life would be blur the deepest passion but in any real human person is a craving for meaning of existence what kind of meaning of existence can I find in the fact that I can make a few dollars that they have a little success Here I am in more tomorrow I'm gone what's the meaning of everything what's the meaning of our society what the meaning of our God is the meaning beyond absurdity wherever I go I'm contractor consistent with the Jewish faith you never write much and call in fact I don't recall you writing at all about a life hereafter lots of religions are predicated on the idea of salvation rather than this earthly existence you don't talk about that sort of thing why is that actually I did write an essay and this problem that the International Conference on death each other in Florence about three years ago not frankly I'll give you the real answer we believe in an afterlife but they have no information about and therefore you can't write about it I'm kidding I reckon they'll write about it in terms of belief or expectation or hope I did they did but you think that's less important than life on Earth I think that's God's business what to do with me afterlife this here is my business what to do with my life I leave it to him I am so busy trying to live a good life and not don't always succeed at no time to avoid what God's going to do with me one time in the grave who knows what he want to trick me to be to degrade and and through all this I find its uniqueness in your feelings of a cooperative a collaborative rather effort between God and man yeah it's it's a sharing yes it's a it's a powerful concept I'm not sure I know how we can help God you see em there was an old ID in Judaism found in the Bible strongly developed by the vampires very little known that is that God suffers and Men suffers there's a very famous text that says even when a criminal is hanged though the Gala's God cries he says one to me he's very unhappy with many dared escaped sympathy of God and part of men God identifies himself with a misery of men I can help him by reducing human suffering human English in human misery we have just about a minute or so left I should say at the start of this hour before we began this hour dr. Henschel indicated an interest in directing a message of young people and I don't know that I ever in the past hour gave you the chance I promised you that I would give you I would say to young people a number of things and they have only one minute I would say that come remember that there is a meaning beyond absurdity let them be sure that every little deed count that every word has power and that he can do everyone our share to redeem the world until despite the fall absurdities another frustration or disappointment and above all remember that the meaning of life is to build life as if it were our work of art kind of a machine and a young start working on this great work of art called your own existence in the best way one of the ways of doing it or two ways of doing it is one remember the importance of self-discipline second study the great sources of wisdoms Gandhi the bestsellers and third remember the life is a celebration can be a celebration there's a lot of entertainment in our life and that detainment is destroying much of our initiative in weakens our imagination what's really important is life a celebration in a very deep sense I would say that the addiction the drug addiction and so many people suffer due to the fact that men cannot live such a shallow life stale he needs exaltation in these moments of celebration but of the most important thing is to teach men how to celebrate life you talked earlier of slanders may I give you an example of something which is not a slander perhaps the most astute comment on your work was made by Professor Marti of the University of Chicago and he said rabbi Heschl's work unlike other philosophers is directed not only at the mind but at the heart and the will I couldn't have said it soap perceptively thank you very much for being with us the eternal light the NBC television religious program has presented a conversation with the late dr. Abraham Joshua Heschel taped shortly before his death his program is dedicated to his memory dr. Heschel was professor of Jewish ethics and mysticism at the Jewish Theological Seminary of America and a distinguished author lecturer philosopher and activist dr. Heschl's humanity and love of life is his legacy to us and can serve as an inspiration for all of us to follow dr. Hirschl spoke with Carl Stern NBC News United States Supreme Court correspondent this special eternal light program was brought to you in association with the Jewish Theological Seminary of America and was a recorded production of the NBC religious programs unit your announcer Jean Hamilton you

Channel: אברהם יהושע השל בישראל

Views: 33,960

Keywords: heschel

Id: WjDNPwVEHdE

Length: 55min 38sec (3338 seconds)

Published: Mon Jul 02 2012